I am through negotiating with the LEA!

[starfish71]

Just need to have a bit of a rant about this. Had my DS2's proposed since September (I know) and have been having meetings, letters since then trying to get them to agree to changes and school my son needs.

I know I have been very very naive and have wasted precious time. Told them to finalise it three weeks ago and that we are going to appeal. Received final through post and am getting sorted ready to lodge my appeal (meeting with SNAP tomorrow) but they have not even changed one word on the statement, none of the information and recommendations that I have kept pointing out to them needs to be included.

Am so cross and I am an idiot for trying to negotiate with them for so long.

Then they ring me last evening and suggest other mainstream schools that may be more understanding of my DS (his mainstream placement at moment is not that great). Am so annoyed.

They have put it in a letter that DS is on the waiting list for an ASD unit so everyone knows that is what he needs but no you can't go there as there are no places.

Sorry for ranting am just so tired and feel so bad I didn't tell them to finalise months ago.

Am off out now to meet another mum who is struggling to get decent provision for her child.

Really feeling bad about all this.

Im going through this too PP have been brilliant comming to all the meetings with me i was being ignored too only way they have taken notice was from CAMHS interviening and my local MP contacting them cos hey presto there moving their butts, im so sorry they are not listening its so frustrating and you want to scream /cry at same time its so tiring fighting the system, but writing to local mp and i sent one to education minister dunno which ones worked but hey they certainly dont need any more bad publicity do they, worth a go anyway ,good luck let us know what happens

Forgot to ask what do SNAP say?

i know how you feel i went through this last year,i went from being very upset to down right flipping angry. so many stupid suggestions i got to the stage when i thought they was just taking the p especially when they suggested a school that was over 2 miles away that wouldnt provide transport and they suggested my son who has learning difficulties, dyspraxia and a language disorder could cyle his way there.

not only that they had the cheek in his statement to add whatever school he goes to addictional support is needed to help the mother understand her sons needs,grrrrr.i lost count of how many times i was told i was being difficult.

by the way stick to whatever it is you want when they realised i wasnt going to back down they caved in 2 days before the tribunal.

scarey tho isnt it Pink im finding that at the moment its like yr fighting an enemy one sniff of weekness , you have to be so strong willed to fight through all the condesendance the rudeness the unhelpfullness and downright stupidness and then theres all this red tape and excuses omg its a nightmare... stay strong star

Thanks for your replies. Baileyandtinks, SNAP say that I have a strong case, meeting with them tomorrow morning to start the process of lodging appeal. Someone else has said to me about contacting local MP so may do that.

I think they think I am a bit dull if you know what I mean? Will visit the schools they have suggested but only to say to panel that I have been open minded and investigated all possibilities.

Pinkstar that is awful! Am so glad you got what your son needed before tribunal but the stress, heartache they cause is unbelievable. And as for suggesting that your son cycles two miles each way....

Hi starfish, also going through similar here going to appeal. Just to say pwp advised us that even though school we want is full, tribunal can rule the school to go over number. In fact I imagine the education officer could do the same now, if they chose to and (obviously providing they conceded none of the barriers listed in sencop to granting parental preference applied)

Hi Starfish

We were in your position last March. We also delayed the issue of the Final Statement by spending so long talking to them about how the proposed version needed to change. The icing on the cake was that we'd had a meeting with the statementing person who had sat there and said she understood what we were asking for and didn't think any of it would be a problem to provide as not of it was extra-ordinary given his set of needs. The final version differed only in that it named the school. They settled 10 days before Tribunal and we got everything we were telling them ds needed originally.

My tip is write everything down and copy in everyone else. And don't give up! It's amazing what they'll try.

Also believe you can get your son into the full placement you want through tribunal process if nowhere else can meet his needs.

Starfish

It's so simple really.

They've said he needsthis sort of placemnet but they don't have any places - so the next thing they are supposed to do is to look for a place within a neighbouring LA and if none is available they need to fund a private placement.

It's an absolute no-brainer.

Just stay clam, sit tight, take them to Tribunal - I epect they'll cave in long before then anyway.

I won't bother with your MP - educationis a local authoruty matter so a meeting with your Local councillor would be more effective.

i disagree starfish yes do all the above but if shes still being ignored the education ministers the ombudsman ect her local councillors are very helpfull and can force them to listen and of course she may be enitled to a legal aid too as it goes in the childs name, no course you shouldnt need to do all that but sometimes you do all the right things and are still fobbed off or ignored i have just had to do this myself and hey presto there cutting our a whole part of the statement process and jumping to the next stage to hurry things along(diff problem i know) but shouting it to everyone from the rooftops worrys themtake snap with you and take notes they hate that too,i had a friend who when taking notes theyasked her why as she would get a letter about the meeting and they were very nervous shuffling around in their seats and she said incase i need it for the trib funny it didnt get that far they sorted i before it went there, so no going quietly seems to help,they seems to think we will put up with whatever they decide no questions

Sorry starfish you have worked so hard to avoid this.
Ring up any private or out or area placements and ask if they have space. You can then add that info to your appeal. Do go to your MP it depends on your MP but ours sat on education committees and has helped parents.
When you put the appeal in also put in the form (on SENDIST website) where you can ask for your appeal to be expedited. In your reasons for requesting a quick hearing point out the long delay / failure of LA to keep to timescales and the fact that the LA already have enough info to reach the correct decision - ie enclose the letter and any info saying needs a unit so there is no need to collect further evidence and a shortened timetable is appropriate.
They have written an unlawful statement - one they know will not need need. You could speak to a lawyer about this.
You must also collect evidence form the provision you are now getting eg 1:1 as to why this is not enough / not working.
Try and set SMART targets which you can measure and which they will have to use specialist input to achieve so you can prove that the 1:1 does not have the expertise to teach your child themselves and specialist teaching is needed.

Thank you everyone for your advice, I am taking it all in and am very grateful.

Just wanted to post a quick update. Have met with SNAP (Parent partnership) and have got the form to fill in for appeal. Have started working on reasons for appeal (which I know really but struggling to make sure I get it right). Any advice on this appreciated.

Have informed the LEA that I am not accepting the Final Statement and that am going to appeal. Have also told them that I am not going to look at other mainstream schools which they suggested and to which I initially agreed but I really can't see how moving him to another mainstream school is going to be much better.

I still have to let the ASD unit attached to mainstream school know I am naming them but will do so first thing Monday.

All been a blur this week. Have started the earlybird plus course this morning which is good but making it all seem very really and permanent.

But on a positive note DS2 had his haircut this week! No tears, no shaking or getting worked up. He just turned around to me and said 'I am going to have my hair cut? Can I have a treat?!!!He was amazing and I am so proud.

Any advice on reasons for appeal or how to word it?

Sorry Star to tell you this but you do have to go and look at the school the LA is proposing. SENDIST will expect you to as only by visiting can you be ceratin that they couldn't actually deliver the level of support.
It should be easy enough - just visit - note that it doesn't provide the same as an ASD base and state your reasons why it's not acceptable.

In your subnmission to SENDUST make it quite clear tat you only requested the Final Statement to enable you to take it to Tribunal - otherwise LA could claim you were happy with the Final Statement

Look at Chapter 8 of SEN COP
Bit about naming a school and how LA are obliged to meet your preference.
Also 8.14 which says the provision must meet the assessed needs.
You have enough evidence to show that they know it can't meet need.
Is there any other provision eg private schools or ABA etc which you could negotiate be put in in the meantime.
Remember to fill out the form that lets you apply to expedite the hearing.
There is also something about how your child should only be in mainstream if that is in line with the parents wishes s.316 Education Act - I am assuming that the ASD unit is a specialist placement and not a mainstream placement?? So you could say that it is against your wishes for your child to be educated in mainstream.

ASD units are mainstream units when they are attached to a mainstream school as (I think) the one Star wants actually is.

They are specialist units within mainstream rather than special schools.

Oh dear, knew I should have not acted so hastily with telling them I am not going to see the schools.

Yes the one I want is an ASD unit attached to a mainstream school.

Do I ring them on Monday and tell them ok yes I will go and have a look? Even though I have told them I am appealing?

Should say that it was only a suggestion by the Case Officer that I may wish to view other schools as I might find them more accommodating than current school.

When I was appealing my solicitor told me to visit the proposed schools as the Tribunal would expect me to see whether they could provide the suport required before I dismissed them out of hand.

It would give you the evidence you need that they can't met his needs rather than just guessing that they can't.

It doesn't stop you appealing - it just makes SENDIST think you've acted reasonably in viewing before dismissing them

Thanks WetAugust. I will give them a ring on Monday and tell them I have reconsidered and intend to visit both schools.

Going to hate doing it though! I know they think I am a pain in backside.

I have got a specialist solicitor 'on standby' she said I could send her all the documents and she would read it and submit a letter to LEA - cost is just under £400. Should I wait or invest the money at this point in the hope it will show how serious I am?

Thanks

Bump - need some advice on whether to go ahead and use the solicitor.

Last bump before I go off to bed. DH has been brilliant tonight letting me do research online and amusing the DC for me!

Try Fiona Slomovic she's advocate rather than lawyer but good and much cheaper

Ooh really? Thank you Agnes, I just have no idea how much this stuff costs and very good to hear that it can be cheaper.

Going to have glass of wine and head up soonish!

Will fiona do it all through emails and telephone callls?

Thanks

Star

My solicitor sent letter after letter to the LA. Totalof cost of reading into my case, all these letters and preparing for Trinubal - just over £3K.

In retrospect I wouldn't have had him send those letters as the LA never acted on a single letter he sent them. Most of the concessions the LA agreed to I negoiated myself and arraned and attended meetings with the LA myself. the solicitor's letters were just 'shots over their bows' which achieved nothing as the LA are well aware that their is a statutory proces for dealing with SENs and if parents don't agree their only option is Tribunal.

As Tribunal never award costs to the parent the LA has little to fear at Tribunal and will almsot certainly take the gamble of being ordered by Tribunal to provide expensive support rather than offering it voluntarily.

I would save you money for Tribunal representation.

What's the solicitor going to tell them that you haven't already told them and they know already - i.e. they either come up with a ASD unit placement or you'll see them in Court.

The ball is already in their court and I have no doubt that they know you are serious about SENDIST.

Best wishes

here

Just ring or email her she's very helpful.