Can a school insist on statementing or refusing to have your child in school if you dont sign for a statement

[coff33pot]

I really need some help here and some advice or support for want of a better word :)

My child is 5 and according to school has behavioural issues. I have repeatedly gone up to the school to help them with handling my child. Ie. the way you talk to him the way you explain to him etc how I deal with the usual child tantrum etc.

I do not have a problem at home at all with him. He is strong willed I admit that but his issues are based around frustration at change if you change a routine or frustration because he cant do something straight away without practicing. He has competition ie an older sibling who is very bright indeed and is forever saying I cant do it like . Any frustrations are dealt with promptly by talking to him and calming him down and hopefully solving the situation. Sounds perfect doesnt it lol? no it isnt he is same as any child, has tantrums and gets time out.

My problem is the school for months now have said he has behavioural/social/emotional problems and want him statemented. Never even hear of this before.

It is true to say that he works well one to one. And doesnt like to be in a large group as point blank he cannot sit still!

In his nursery he had no problems owing to the fact he was one to one all of the time as they loved to let the new staff use him for their portfolios to get grades. It was not until he joined after school club that he had problems because there was such an age scale 5 to 11 yrs and they had to amuse themselves which he was not used to doing.

The schools punishment for bad behaviour started by putting him the hallway at lunchtimes with a box of toys because the dinner lady couldnt handle the fact that he wouldnt line up and come back in etc. So they left him on his own with toys after his dinner instead of letting him out to play. This went on for a long time. Much to say when he did go outside he went berserk and ran around all over the place and didnt want to come back inside, so that was classed as bad behaviour too. He then had a prob with a child who hit him. He hit him back (wrong I know) the child hit him again with a big stick and my son picked up the stick and wacked the child hard. My son was punished and the other was left out to play. In my mind BOTH children should have been told off and sat either end of the hall. But no its my son that has bad behaviour.

He then was excluded from school for what they said assaulting a teacher. It was a tape measure that he grabbed. When I got him home I asked why? His answer? "mummy i thought if I tied her to her chair I would not have to do PE" This to me was child instantaineous logic. Of course I told him it cant be done but at the same time he wrapped a tape measure round her not ASSAULTED her.

They have had people in to see him which I consented to if it was to help the school and my child. I gladly want to help. But they keep insisting I need help at home which I dont and have repeated that I have no problem with him. But because I said he is strong willed they have now insisted he should be statemented because they cant get funding to have the helper help him etc.

All these ppl seeing him has upset him and he started to not want to go school whereas before he went willingly.

They have had this person and that visiting him and knocking on my door. And keep on an on about this statement for his bad behavour. The last comment being if you wont sign for educational psychologist to visit she cant do report and if we dont get funding we cant have him.

Ok soooooo I told them to back off and leave him alone now he has a new teacher that hasnt taught a full class before and maybe it is she who cant cope. Told them I want no one to visit him anymore and that it took me all xmas to calm him down and tell him school is a great place etc etc.

For the 3 weeks they have left us alone my son has had a full sheet of good behaviour stickers, is now reading admittedly one to one but he is doing great and the helpers have done nothing but comment on how different he is. I am so proud of him and praise him for it every day.

BUT>>>> I now get a letter from the school with the form to sign again for this psychologist to visit. (appointment already booked!) On the form it says that he is difficult at HOME and at school and wont do what adults tell him to do. Also about the assault and the fact that he likes guns (all boys like guns and ben 10)

The letter states in one breath it does not mean that a report for statmenting will be done as this needs my permission again. But in another breath going on about how much it will help him if they got funding and perhaps we can discuss it again.

I am upset that they are using me (his homelife) in this form when this isnt true and I have no problem with him at home. It is the school that cant cope with him, or couldnt till I put a stop to all the visits. They are saying his good behaviour is the result of his one to one care with a helper, but he has had this since the start in sept and it certainly hadnt helped till all of a sudden I called everyone off!

I am now hear in tears with a major headache and saw this site so I know this is all over the place and probably not even in the right posting area for this I am sorry.

Can they blackmail me into signing just to keep my son at school? can they refuse to teach him? There are more needy children that need this funding money and I feel they are just using my son to get money for nothing. And statementing my child when I think there is nothing wrong with him is and seems very wrong but i am really in a corner not knowing what to do. Please help if you can work this muddle out.

They should not ahve lied about at home: articularly as they don;t need to, kids with different behavior patterns at home and school are well documented.

If nthey feel they need a statement in order to teach him effectivelty take it, they are like gold dust. he is I am sure fine at home that does not mean he is at school and if ensuring he gets enough help to get a decent education means a statement then so be it.

They are not labels, they do not create issues or behaviours- but no child gets one without a very serious need (often not then) and I hoinestly think allowing a Psych to assess your child is sensible.

All the things you mention are a worry but not significant; however added they up they may- or may not- paint a picture and I would want to check it out in the same way I would any worry.

Thank you ever so much for replying I really appreciate it. I have gone through 3 sets of emotions for the last 3 months. The first was blame. That I am missing something in my son that I have ignored or not spotted. I worked damn hard and thought putting him in nursery has caused this instead of being at home with him more. I have bought my own business (or paying it off lol) to be with my son more straight from school thinking it was me that was causing him upset. Dont get me wrong I love it :)

The second was anger and yes I took it that statementing meant just that labeling a child and making him stand out. This statementing thing was not explained to me properly and when I said I didnt want him to stand out the Heads reply was "well he already does" She could have explained with a bit more compassion and maybe I would have felt better about it then. I live in a small town and the helpers are local so you can imagine how I feel when I get a LOOK of pity like I cant handle my own son when he has misbehaved at school the previous day. There has been phone calls to go get him and when I have got there he is absolutely fine doing what he has to do and even the teachers have questioned it and said "he has been fine with me?" My son is told he has to go home and he looks up and says "why?"

Its just odd that during reception I didnt get loads of phone calls. TILL I agreed to them having ppl assess him then I was inundated with phone calls saying hes done this or done that and when you get there the Head opens her diary and gives you a run down on all the bad things that has happened. Its like they were picking on him for the trival ie. sat under table instead of on carpet or didnt want to do writing so took himself off to library and sat down with a book. Neither one of these were violence or disruptive like turning a table upside down or something. I felt he was being picked on and so was I.

The third is mistrust. my son developed a phobia on not wanting to go school because he had no friends. He thought these ppl were policemen that would take him or me away. he wanted to do xmas play but because they kept him separate he used the adult words of "it is too much for me" found out in convo with him it was the teacher who was talking to another teacher and he heard it so he got it into his head that he couldnt do the play. They have got him cleaning dinner tables at lunchtime, and playing with babies in nursery, rather than let him out to play. Now he says hes got no friends and when I take him to the park he doesnt know anyone or they are already in groups so he just wants to come home. It doesnt seem like help more like alienation. I was told he needed clubs to join but there arent any anywhere until he is 6.

My mistrust has escalated owing to the fact that the head keeps on saying we are here for you and getting these organisations ringing me to help me when I have point blank said I dont need any. All this started because the SCHOOL said they needed the support. It is starting to make me feel oh I dont know how I feel to be honest well mixed up if I am truthful. I want the best for my son but I dont know if this funding is going to change how they deal with things. And to lie and telling various ppl that have come to assess thomas that I cant cope hasnt given me much confidence in them and making me doubt myself too.

Still I am glad you replied and it has given me something to seriously think over. Thank you again :)

I have made a coffee took a ibruprofen for this headache and probably go buy a new keyboard for wearing this one out tonight!

And I have read and re read and thought. And you are right. It would eat me away if my son got older and couldnt cope with normal everyday life and he had missed his chance because of me.

I dont talk things over with anyone and just battle it out in my own head normally. But this head is worn out :) It has been great to have a different perspective from neutral territory so to speak.

Tomorrow morning I will make an appointment with the Head and talk it over again. What I intend to do is insist she re structures her comments and removes the comments about issues at home. The appointment for the E Psychologist has already been booked for Tuesday so far as I can read between the lines the EP wants to see me after my son with her findings. I will only catagorically state that we have no problems at home anyway so this will not do the Head or my son any favours. Then I will sign and find out one way or another hmmmmm?

If there are issues then at least my son and the school will get the help deserved and then just maybe they might listen to me on how to get positive responses from him. If there are none then I shall look into him changing teachers as I still think that is part of the issue he had no problem with the "old school type" teacher that taught my other two (who incidentaly one had no prob and one currently is sailing through Juniors) Because she just point blank took no nonsense lol. The one he has now is nice but new with first class and she has 3 helpers in her classroom for support whilst finding her feet in the first year. In her defense tho I have to say it was the "old school" that mentioned the start of a "slight problem" she said.
I shall let you know how I got on.

Thank you for helping me turn this over in my head :)

My ds was like yours. Always in trouble,school always complaining. Infant's wanted to request sm but we refused as thought it was them causing all the problems (long story but awful Head,ds now needs counselling for 'trauma' caused by this school).Things seemed to improve at Junior's for a while but then went downhill. This time I requested assessment as I could see that things would get difficult for secondary. We have no diagnosis but are fairly certain he has Asperger's as are 2 EP's. He is now 10 but with hindsight it would have been much better for him if he was assessed when younger and given extra suppport. He now has a statement of 22 hours and we are hopeful that things will start getting better for him. My point is that we are not experts and others may see what we do not. You may find EP meeting useful as our one was great,really supportive and saw straight away what the difficulties were. It may be that they could suggest strategies to school to help your ds.

Asperger's is always a possibility- if you even wonder about that google triad of impairments or PM me and I will send you a few links as it both my ds1's diagnosis and my field of study.

ODD, ADHD, EBD- lots of otehr possibilities. Then just run of the mill personality clashes: yes ds1 has AS but there are absolutely some teachers he thrives with 9the very old fashioned one this eyar is a gem) and some not.

The Ed PSych assess / chat with you thing is bog standard. Absolutely agree you need to state no issues at home but do listen to what they ahve to say: that's a sign you are a good aprent and have good routines etc at home but doesn;t write anything off. More, i;ve ehard of people having clashes with Psychs early on and tbh it's always worth fostering a decent working relationship. nobody knows what life will throw at us and several eyars on you may need Ed PSych for one or another of your children.

If you want to read more about the statement process try the IPSEA sit: i will be honest, few aprents of my experience have fougth against them- rather much mroe the other way around though teahcers tell me it's quite common. IPSEA is mainly used by people fighting for but has so much information on there.

And the cliflicitng emotions thing is bang on normal: it's a tough time. Work with the school (unless you feel it is no longer possible then look at moving him) and allow yourself to feel whatever you do: it will be quite usual no doubt.

Thanks all. Well I took my ds to school this morning with no problems. Came home and rang and sods Law she is unavailable and was asked if it was urgent. I said yes it is as she has sent me a form to sign and my dh wants to come with me to discuss 1)one the alteration as mentioned and 2) more indepth about what is actually going on. They did say that she might phone me back in the afternoon so lets hope so. I hope she does as I am more positive today but your mind swings from positive to defensive depending on what circumstances you hear at the end of each day. Instint is to protect your child (but after thinking it over till 2am lol sometimes over protecting can do harm without knowing it :) )

Incidently I fell on this site by chance and I am so glad I did. There is a lot of useful info here.

I will tell you a bit about my ds and would appreciate your input.

My ds is a very bright child he will remember exactly what you have taught him or talked about weeks on so he has the gift there to learn so I dont foresee a prob with holding memory.

He is kind and loving when someone is upset or hurt. In the same dose he will torture his sister by poking and laughing at her (she is 9)or damaging something that belongs to her without feeling any remorse at that time. However he will say sorry when told too.

His main problems to me are:

insecurity and fitting in......He constantly tells me "i love you mum" over and over all day. Which is wonderful but it seems he needs that assurance all the time if you know what I mean.

He battles with himself saying "I was born naughty and he cant stop" we havent told him this by anymeans. He was told he was a magic star that we chose that was very special like all children are. A few days later he said to me I got a problem mum. He had been learning about god at school in some subject or other. And he said "I have done a bad thing" "I have thrown my good star up and its gone too high and now gods got it and I cant get my good star back" Bless him I dont worship anything but told him what I would do was wisper to god that he will look after it and perhaps he will place it on his pillow in the night. I then drew a star and cut it out. That stopped him worrying. Its an amusing story I know but in the same breath it worried me.

He is so indepth in the sense that if he watches a programme most kids just stare at the story or film, but he wants to know WHY they are doing that and discusses things in the background rather than the actual programme. If 2 = 2 equals 4 he wants to know WHY.

He is obsessed with guns. Started off with Ben10 who saves the world from bad aliens. As far as he is concerned he kills them. I have said not just banished away but no Ben kills them. And he asks to play the "killing game" as he calls it. I dont buy him guns but he has a cowboy gun from his gran and if he cant find that he makes one out of lego or sticks. He watched a cowboy film oldie that just purely by chance on flicking over and said ooooh! hes going to kill someone. So I left it on and said now look he is not dead. I said in play when you fall to the floor are you dead? to which he said no of course not, so I replied they are doing the same and having a game. He has accepted that it is not real so that is a start then I turned it over. He does not watch violent films at all infact my dh and I are so busy in the evenings after they gone bed we havent watched a film so I cant understand where this has come from. All kids programmes have cuddlys running around with space guns or building contraptions and blowing them up or someone knocking them down etc. Mad scientists and such even tom and jerry put the cat in the microwave so its hard to keep him away from all stuff.

He gets frustrated easily.........if he cant do something on a ds game straight away or right something straight away. When he was a baby he wouldnt tak but would point until he could say the word EXACTLY as it should be. No can i have a DINK or GINK with him he would say can I have a and point till he felt he could say drink. Same with reading, its I cant do it right. And he wont. Then he will just walk in and read it with no problem its like he analyses things from a distance for a couple days then out he comes with it.

My 9 year old is bright and has no problems and my ds resents this. But this has got better in me talking to my ds and telling her to give encouragement like I do and say well done thats great even if SHE doesnt think so.

He talks to adults first rather than the children. Its like he adopts one and sticks to that one person. With children I think it is a social issue in understanding that when they call him a name or joke to him they dont mean it. Or if someone splashes him with water he goes mad and I am trying to say laugh and splash back. Its like he feels belittled if you know what I mean.

He likes touch...........if he chooses. He will hold your hand and hugs are a main part. But if he is stressed or mad you talk to him first as to touch then agravates him big time. And I have told the school this time and time again dont grab him. Talk to him calmly and straight and all is ok he will then come to you. He uses the term "leave me alone" for his time out. You have told him he was wrong and what the consequences are and then he is saying he wants to be left to think. He comes round in 5 mins or so and you get a "right then" you get apology and he does what is asked. But they say the "leave me alone" is bad behaviour it is not.

And I suppose when you add all this up collectively my ds could need help but because I know him and know how to help him I dont see it as a problem. Or he is just going through a phase?

I know you are not medics but input would be good.

Honestly?

Well youa re right we are not medics.

Many of us do know a little bit about these things though- I am a stats module off completing a post grad in ASD (except will carry it on and get an MA).

There are flags there for Asperger's. I would want him to see a APediatrician or Clinical psych 9depending on protocol in your area).

Raed up on AS: it is in no way a sign he is not bright / bad / cannot make a great life for himself. DS1 is at the severe end of AS and struggles a lot but most children wwith AS are far milder; there are aprents on this board with it who post.

AS simply menas he has trouble with each of the ctegories of the triad of impairments but no significant langauge delay at age 3 or learning impairment. It is not known how it is caused but we think a combination of genetics and random other stuff. It is not apretning.

Kids with As often strugglein school becuase of the other children, but with decent help he should be OK.

The national Autistic Society ahs a lot of info on their site but I have some Uni notes I could send if you PM me your address.

And you know he may very well not have AS or anything else- in which case checking it out is even better becuase you will eb able to stop wondering 'what if....'.

Thanks for the comeback and have had a good look at Tony Attwoods write up. And yes I have to say I see my ds in his words. And yes I am crying my eyes out lol.

For I think he needs help more than I can give for outside life. My own brother has OCD but not diagnosed until well into adulthood. To be honest we as siblings didnt notice anything outstandingly different about him.

I will wait to see the outcome of the Ed psych before I look into it further. I also have the issue of explaining to my dh that there is a possibility that ds needs more help. That wont be easy as he is insistent that there is nothing wrong with him and just a jack the lad and will grow out of it as we are doing ok at home. And that he is just being naughty. In all fairness to dh it is his only and will be only son (as I am too old to have anymore now lol)so it is understandable for him to insist he is perfect.

@ Peachy thanks for the offer of more info. WHEN I find where the pms get done lol and I got this report from the EPsych I will gladly appreciate all the help I can get :)

No probs - PMs via blue toolbar at top of post (bit with your name on)- hit message poster.

If you feel like he needs a check, listen to Ed Psych but don;t sell out if she dismisses it: remember they cannot diagnose (unless they have a back up system with a specialist clinician which is rare, I only know one and she is at the top of her profession) and they are, significantly, apid by the LEA who would be asked to fund any help. If alarms bells ring about an issue with the system, they should.

And your DH- many, many people react the same way, in fact denidal is a stage of the frief process in itself. Give him time whilst just getting aplces on waiitng lists; they take a while anyway.

Alternatively if he is dead against labelling but admits a need for help, thre's a aplce called BIBIC that does (often funded) support for kids from dyslexia upwards (no diagnosis needed) but doesn;t give labels, only addresses need. Don;t be ut off by their name which implies severe disability: it's an old charity, just what they named it more than thirty yrears ago when things were very different indeed.

best of luck, Spend a few days sdoing little with wine and chocs.

Wine is out lol up at 5am my turn for deliveries but chocs are in and am stuffing one now :o

Still no phone call from the Head who is the SENCO also. Got a feeling its going to be an end of day call and a weekend wait. That is usually the norm when you want to get things moveing :)

Where my dh is concerned for the last 14 years if I say "accept what is happening" he will, quietly but he will :)

Right off to do some more research and have a good scout round this lovely site!

Ooh Peachy. Could I pm you at all? You might be able to help with a bit of advice.

Of course you can.

And if I take a few days to reply harrass me as I am always forgetting things.

I tend to do the powerpoints in batches though and intend to do some this weekend

Hi all! hope you are having a good weekend! It is freezing down here at the moment had a nice icy early start this morning!

Well the Head/SENCO did phone me on Friday and 2pm and I managed to get an appt for 2.50 so myself and dh went to see her.

Managed to go in a positive mood and also managed to not get on the defensive and bite the womans head off so brownie point for me lol :o

I politely asked her to remove the comments regarding issues in homelife and she agreed to do so without much ado. She actually said that the report to go to the EP had been filled in way back in November and that she must admit there had been a significant improvement in my ds behaviour for the last 3 weeks however she would still like to seek the EP to assess him.

So fairplay she did what we had asked of her. I did not mention the possibility of Aspergers as I did not want to implant anything in her or the EPs head as I want a totally natural assessment first and see what comes about when I meet the EP on Tuesday.

My dh felt a lot better in being able to be more involved with the issue at hand.

The Head did say at this precise moment she feels that there is no need to rush off have ds statemented owing to his improvement so far but feels an assessment is necessary as it can only benefit ds should things deteriorate and a statement should become needed.

What did gain my confidence in her was that she said she is helping ds with 1 to 1 care for 24 hrs a week and she said she catagorically does not plan on giving up on ds and even tho they are paying for this 1 to 1 even if he is not statemented she will not take this care away. And her main desire is to integrate ds back to normal school routine with everyone else but it will take time. We asked her to type up the plan she wishes to follow and the timetable ds is going to be set to so we can then follow it with her and diary out any issues (ie ds came home stressed out that day.....why?) then maybe if I work as a team with her instead of the enemy we just might sort it :)

What we did find was that information we had passed on to ds actual teacher was not being put into practice and hadnt been passed on to her. Some of these were:

1)He hates water and comes home with a full bottle every day. They also get water at dinner and he refuses to drink it. So although a small part if he is thirsty/overheated during a tantrum he wont calm down.

2)One of the ways to calm ds down at home is to say we need a meeting and we have a small drink and a biscuit at the table. He will then come out of whatever he is under and join you. Then you have a better chance of erasing a situation. I suggested I brought a familiar cup to school that they place a drink in and try it out. This would be less time consuming than chasing him halfway around school and then trying to talk!

3)Chocolate sends him potty! We worked it out when I did a food diary (funny the things you do) to find if there was a link in diet. And on more than one occasion an hour after chocolate he was unmanagable. So I informed the school that during his dinners avoid it. But they continued to let him have choc pudding.

She had none of this noted at all. Suggested the cup was a good idea. I also suggested if I supplied a bottle of flavoured water (which my daughter takes due to excema and wont drink water) That she could use at their "meetings" She just plainly said put it in his water bottle anyway there would be no prob. And she was going to inform the dinner ladies on choc pud day have a different spongey pud for ds. Soooo maybe all this will help.....hears hoping!

We also discussed the "talking in earshot" as ds is coming home repeating what I call OLD words about himself. One of the probs with ds is although he is not making eye contact he hears everything and he takes adults to their word. If he hears "* is having a bad day" he thinks well I am bad so I will be bad" If he hears "he wont cope with this" he will just plain say I cant do it. So she is going to have a quiet word with the helpers.

Overall both myself and ds feel more confident in her actions. My top concern was when this EP comes they were going to put ds through a "normal" school day that we know he cant cope with just to prove his behaviour and put him in a stressful situation so that we will back track to his mistrust in school that we had 3 weeks ago. He does not accept change of routine it upsets him unless properly explained. The Head gave me her word that he will be seen in his 1 to 1 state. Then have few tests privately with the EP and that they wont totally alter his day so I am relieved about that.

What I will say is thanks to this site I got my head together enough to deal with this meeting without jumping down the womans throat. And now just await the EP and her findings.

If no problem.............GREAT!

If problems..............GREAT because we can head in the right direction of doing whats best for ds :)

Good that the Head is listening and taking your comments on board. That's one obstacle less to worry about as lot's of us here have no end of problems with school just not wanting to take on board what you say.
Hope all goes well at the meeting with EP.

well today is the day my ds gets his assessment done with the EP. And today I finally bit the bullet and told my dh that I think that ds is having serious problems and that I am waiting for a GP to call me back. I have to say he took it very well which leads me to think that he really thought the same but like me didnt want to actually say it.

DS was doing well these last 3 weeks with just a few issues and I thought all was ok and the one to one was helping greatly. But today was not a good day for him and the teachers were baffled as to why.

I got a phone call saying he was unresponsive to anyone and not doing as he was told at all. Not being nasty or anything just running around. The senco said it was like he went into his own world and just drifted and ran around school. She said it was during changing from one room and an activity to another. Perfectly fine doing drawing with her but then once taken back to his class within 5 minute he walked out of it. She said she wouldnt take him swimming and wanted me to pick him up.

I didnt straight away but thought it was time to call the GP. He phoned me back and we had a chat with me in tears most of the time lol so how he understood me I dont know. I said I have concerns that ds may have aspergers and went through his way of living etc and that I got a child of 21 and another of 9 and although all have been brought up the same my ds is different. I asked him for some help in getting a proffessional to see him but he said I have to wait for the EP first?

When I got to school ds was in the library with the young teacher. After a chat with the Head/SENCO I went in and he was crouched under the table AGAIN. I dont think the young teacher really knows how to handle him she was still in the same cross legged spot in her chair when I walked by an hour before, and she looked shocked when I walked in and calmly just got down on all fours to ds level next to him and said hi mate" whats up then? how come you are under here?" he said oh I dont know really. So I just said well best get back out then hmmmm? if you dont know. He was about to just crawl out and then Young Teach said " well you have been kicking it havent you ds" sooooo he crawled back under.

I ignored her really as I wasnt prepared to repremand him infront of her just to make her feel better (this woman is forever giving the negative and never the positive at the end of every school day and I think ds knows this) And its hard to explain to her I suppose that to tell him off now would make matters ten times worse. Needless to say I got a LOOK. I told ds it was a shame to kick the table seeing as he needs it for his lovely reading with his helper tomorrow and out he crawled. I then said tomorrow is a new start lets see if we can do better tomorrow hmmm? and he nodded then wanted to know why the lights were still on. But it did prompt him to say sorry to the Heads feet!

Walking home I tried to discuss his actions with him but he was constantly talking about rocks (not guns this time :))And rocks and volcanic rocks were the topic of his convo till bed.

I really dont know what happened today other than I knew it was going to be an odd one as he didnt want to go this morning. He didnt get worked up about going and didnt object to me putting his uniform on but just didnt want to get out of bed and didnt want to get there fast. He walked in ok but I had this feeling and told them to not expect or push him too much today.

Sorry I know I am rambling on. I guess you would call it a low day. They have a planetarium coming to school tomorrow and he loves the stars its the only thing he shares with his sister is the love of the stars and planets. But tonite I told him and you would think by his little face that I just said his dog had died. All I can do is wait for the EPs assessment I suppose.