so upset they didnt use her as they should.

[lisad123isasnuttyasaboxoffrogs]

Specialist SALT, who undertakes all ASD assessments, went into DD2 preschool today.
Some of you may remember they disagreed with assessment and were determined there was nothing wrong with her even though we, SALT, specialist SALT and special school all agreed she was autistic.

SALT went in today, and spent time with SENCO observing DD2 and pointing out all the things she does that would work towards a dx of Autism.
She said everytime she mentioned something they replied "all the kids do that" "I never noticed that" and finally "well shes nothing like the boys we had befpore"!!!

Im so mad at them, they just refused to listen to her and pretty much questioned why she would need a diagnois and what difference it would make to her.
I really feel like just pulling her out but I wanted her to be in mainstream preschool too so she got used to being in larger classes and with NT children as we are hoping she would be able to go to mainstream
with support.

Im sorry but just needed to rant, so dont worry about replying.

I have TAC with them all tomorrow too which im dreading

It is so frustrating to have such blinkered staff. How would they like it if we rubbished their assessments of our children - bet they would go mad.
You would have thought with all the 'professional courtesy' that goes on when we want something done that the school would have at least tried to understand why the SALT was saying what she did.
at the 'boys' comment. Shows their limited knowledge.
How will this affect everything tomorrow? Do you think that they have taken anything on board?

i really dont know, I have a list of stuff for the 1-1 to work one, but tbh I dont think they see the problem at all and clearly dont agree about early dx. TAC tomorrow is me, SENCO from main stream, Head of special school, and preschool advisory who backs mainstream after seeing DD2 for one hour

I was most livid about the "boy" comment, umm she a girl!!
They have been given some reading but tbh I just want to pull her out but know i shouldnt.

Cld you ask the most approachable of the profs off the record if there is any point keeping her in that ms if they try and ignore the issues?

I forgot {blond emoticon} is that your only choice of MS?
Can't comment about the pre school advisory, but some MS are really supportive. It would be a shame if 1 bad apple spoilt the MS option for you

Do you have anything written about the different manifestations of traits in girls and boys? A hard copy of that strategically shoved ( ) in front of them might give their blinkers a bit of light?

liasd- I can completely understand your need for a rant.

My dd(4) doesn't have a diagnosis yet, but then we've only really got as far as inclusion support and the HV. there was a definate divide of opinion. Pre school definitely thought she was on the mild end of the spectrum, whereas inclusion support and the HV just thought that she was behind. It's a bizare feeling when you get that letter through your door saying they don't believe your childs problems are severe enough to involve their people. On one hand I remember feeling relieved as if that was some sort of proof that dd was fine and maybe she was just a little behind after all. On the other hand you then question their knowledge and skills. Inclusion support said the same to me about "all children do that"etc.

Are the school really helping you with pushing for a diagnosis? I don't really get this "how would a diagosis help her?"thing. This is exactly what my gp said to me and I didn't really know what to say. A diagnosis will help her with getting the funding needed for extra support which she will more than likely need(this is what I should have said at the time)

I don't really think I have given you any advice, but I can completely relate to the situation you find yourself in.

Do you mind if I ask what sort of autistic traits you feel she is showing? Just wanted to ask as if there is a difference of opinions with the professionals, my guess is she would be on the milder end of the spectrum like i'm assuming my dd is.

Hope you're feeling a little calmer.

Also, just wanted to say that I had a quick look at your profile. Your girls look so cute!!

Some people really should know better. Sounds like SENCO needs kick up the bumfurther training

This is the pre-school that you've been told not to pull her out of right?

I'm guessing this is verbal feedback from the SALT. Is she going to send you a report including the behaviour she has observed and the SENCo's resistance to accepting her difficulties?

I bet your SALT was boiling o be told "all kids do that". How patronising, we have fought against this comment ever since Dd3 has been at school. Yesterday we were at CAMHS and finally met someone who agreed with us about how unhelpful that comment is.

I hae a girl well 2 in fact who are somewhere around the spectrum and yes they are different to bys [surprise, surprise] but you don't have to go a million miles to find some info about them!!

I would second the comment about maybe another ms preschool would be better, I work in preschool and there is no way we would treat parents or proffs in this way. IME there is still a lack of training in some pre schools. In my area the funding for training has been really good lately and we are all booking as many courses as we can before they pull the plug.

Really tough situation to be in I feel for you

Thank you loopy [gtrin]
Al1son yes this is the one I have been told I have to keep her at. Yes verbal feedback from SALT but will email and ask for report if possible.

Its hard because if I move her it will delay her assessment till November

these are the things we have noticed

Communication/Social
prefers to play alone
doesn?t like adult lead play
inconsistent eye contact
pulls by hand rather than talk or point
cannot understand girl/boy plus name eg: ?you?re a girl? her reply is ?no I'm Jasmine? very upset by this.
doesn?t come to show object to discuss, only to get needs met.
describes crying as ?eyes leaking?
no please or politeness to requests
No attachment to anyone or any objects, would happily carry round a sock/bottle top/ect or a toy and I can leave her with anyone.
Does not understand if she has hurt someone and will often repeat it.
hugs and kisses on her terms only
Is very bossy
Has no friends that she talks about or is bothered with.

Physical
Hand flapping/clapping
Tip toe walking
spinning with eyes to side
walking along lines
touching fences, walls, glass, anything (sensory seeking)
clumsy
falls over a lot
lines things up, including puzzle piece, cars, PECS, stones, toys ect
little sense of danger eg will jump off things, run off, hit people and things.
needs light on in each room to enter no matter what
hates certain noises eg motorbikes, hand dryer, hair dryers, fireworks and will jump, scream and put hand over ears.
little response to pain
hates dirty hands and will hand flap till clean.

Language
Echolalia
cant understand now, then, later
asks questions "wrong"
repetitive speech
repetitive play
refers to self as 3rd person
use of jargon
has no volume control, everything is loud
Further reports from SALT
Screeches rather than using words

It is really frustrating isn't it, you have listed all those features which you see in your child daily and yet the preschool staff "don't see it". It is garbage as far as I can see. They dont want to see or they don't know what they are looking for.

If only they would do a little reading all might become clearer for them.

Can you tell I am a bit sick of people telling me they "Don't see it" too.

What you list gives a pretty clear picture! You are really stuck between a rock and a hard place! I hope the SALT writes a report for you and mentions the attitude of the pre-school staff in it.

Keep focussed on the fact that she doesn't have to stay at this setting forever and with everything she's exhibiting I think you'll get a dx eventually. I know early intervention is best but you'll be doing lots to help her in the meantime.

hopefully as SALT have observed in the pre-school setting,they will write report-we seem to get a report every time ds is 'observed'- could you ask what they thought of the pre-school's comments ? It must be so frustrating having to keep her there !

It does sound as though the preschool is being extremely close-minded to not at least consider the possibility that your dd is on the spectrum. There are enough pointers to ensure further assessment at the very least.

Will see what they say at TAC tomorrow but if no further forward I think she wont be returning after half term.
Paed said we "had to give them the opperturnity to see her difficutlies" which I feel i have.
She also said if I was to move her at Easter like planned the new placement wouldnt have had her long enough to get to know her by the May assessment. However if I pull her out but dont place her anywhere new its not a problem is it? LOL

That's what I call thinking outside the box (of frogs)!

You are quite right. She doesn't have to be attending the pre-school to be assessed. Is she still attending the SEN one?

yes she goes to a special autism preschool 3 sessions a week and they back me up.
Im quite happy to take her to childs centre groups, I serious had to laugh when talking to outreach worker today, she asked
"did you go to nursery today?"
DD2 "I did go to nursery today"
ORW "did you have juice"
DD2 "I did have juice"
ORW "did you have snack"
DD2 "I did have snack"

LOL it was very funny at the time. I have asked her to come along and support me tomorrow too.

Not sure how I will manage at TAC I have no voice!

Is that metaphorically? or have you really lost your voice ?
Seriously though, it does sometimes feel as if we sit and listen and then express our views and it's as if nobody had heard us at all. Our views seem to count for so little, yet we know our DCs the best.
Gargle with salty water - perhaps take something like a tyrozet just before the meeting starts. I wish you well

lisad-Do you find that sometimes the things that you listed which upset her or make her anxious aren't allthe time?

I only ask because a fair amount of what you listed I could relate to my dd. However, this isn't all the time. She can have weeks for example when she hates load noises and will squeal and run off and then another time she wont even notice or she'll make a joke out of it. Also she can have weeks where she will bounce around(nicknamed tigger) or tip toe like you mentioned and then other weeks she very rarely does this and will walk 'normally'. Does any of that ring true with your dd, or is it more of a constant thing?

Can your dd ride a bike/trike? I know this is also a sign of autism, but I can't work out with my dd if she can't do it or won't. She so strong willed, so it's difficult to tell.

Hope your day is a better one today.

Alittleloppy, yes some of them are more often than others. She does tend to be on her tiptoes as soon as her shoes are off, most days but hand clapping and flapping is only when shes excited or stressed out.

Well that was an intresting TAC!
The main stream preschool said the specialist SALT wasnt helpful at all and all the things she was pointing out were things "all children do"
I said I was concerned that they werent using the proffessionals that know what they are talking about and concerned they are too quick to dismiss her difficulties and asked how many girls with ASD they had in their preschool before

DD2 normal SALT was there and she is quite shocked and is reviewing her again in March. I also had a call quie soon as I got back, (salt clearly talked to her) and she was quite upset that they have been so dismissive of her needs.

I have refused further TACs as they are pointless and have no real plans to them but have agreed to a transitional TAC for when she starts nursery in Sept.

Im quite proud of myself, I didnt cry, I was fairly polite and got across my views clearly.
I have agreed to keep her in mainstream till half term as SN school are going in to advise them too and they are having preschool visit her at SN school too, so will see if there is any changes.

I feel yuck and been to GP as I have tonsilistis now :(
as soon as dh is home im taking to my bed with laptop and he can deal with kids and tea!!

Well done for getting through that and particularly for expressing your feelings about the pre-school.

When people tell me that all children do what my girls do I agree with them. Then I point out that NT children don't do all the things my girls do and they don't do them to the point where it they cannot function normally. That's where the line should be drawn.

That pre-school really have decided they are going to prove you wrong whatever it takes haven't they? I'd be very surprised if you did see any changes.

well good thing i found out today was Paed already thinks dd2 has asd, so shouldnt be too big a fight come next CDAC.
Sleep now calling

That's good news. Hope you feel better tomorrow.