SN toddler and newborn?

[r3dh3d]

I'm expecting another baby in December. DD is fortunately very good-natured (so far) but is difficult to communicate with and impossible to control. (ASD/Autism) She doesn't understand the word "No" or about being "gentle" at all, and is going through a phase of biting quite severely. She is immensely strong for her age (19 months). DD2 will be born by section so my ability to restrain DD1 will be limited.

I'm really concerned that she will harm the baby in some way - not intentionally, I'm sure she won't even see her as a person, she certainly isn't attached enough to us to be jealous - but accidentally.

In practical terms, how have other people handled this? Has anyone else bring home a new baby to an Autistic toddler, and how did it go?

I wasn't going to reply to your message as my DS1 is much less challenging than your DD, but as no-one else has anything better to say ...

My DS1 was going through a HIDEOUS biting phase (anyone, anytime, several times an hour, for no reason) when we had DS2. DS1 was 25 months. It is now clear DS1 has some problems, poss AS, but we didn't know then.

We did all the usual new baby stuff: warning toddler before that baby was coming, getting baby stuff set up in advance, so the bath / cot etc were in place and didn't suddenly appear etc. We wouldn't leave baby and toddler together alone at all (I know people use playpens for the baby or stairgates between rooms to keep them apart).
We had NO big probs, and I can't remember DS1 biting DS2 at all - lots of kicking / hitting / sitting on etc. Has got trickier now DS2 is crawling.

The probs we had were unexpected: DS1 got (still gets) very cross if he sees anyone holding - or even looking at - DS2. Also DS1 would push DS2 off his babygym and babynest, or try to get in / on them with him.

DS2 has proved more robust than I'd imagined, and DS1 has developed a closer relationship with DS2 than he has with anyone other than us.

Good luck!

hi i would buy a baby doll(that cries etc)and start treating it like a real baby with her. Then she can practice being gentle with it and you can supervise and put her right. It will also help lesson your fears hopefully. Plus try and get her some contact with real babies even if its just cooing into someone's pram. To reinforce being gentle. Don't know if it would work but maybe worth a try.

Ds1 was 2yrs 8mths when ds2 was born. Ds1 had very little language comprehension at that time and so it was impossible to explain in advance or prepare him. I'm not sure he even understood what "baby" meant tbh. Ds1 was/is also very sensitive to noise and I expected all hell to break loose when ds2 started crying. Things turned out much better than I'd expected. When ds2 cried in his pram I found ds1 gently rocking the pram to get him back to sleep. They are now 5 and 2 and are still very close - although there is still chaos when one interrupts the other one's games etc.

No.3 is due in late March. Ds2 will be 3yrs old then so, like you, I'm looking ahead and worrying a bit about what it will be like with a newborn in the house. Ds2 is generally hyper and prone to throwing heavy objects and toys across the room so I'm already looking for ways to avoid accidents and possible injuries.

I like SoBlue's idea of giving demonstrations with a doll. I mighttry that with ds2 too.

Thanks all;

Some good practical thoughts there - eg the doll, also setting things like the crib up in advance. I have tried introducing her to other babies but so far she just blanks them. Immensely interested in the car seat they arrive in, no interest in the baby at all.

I suppose the other thing is to think of more ways I can keep them separate - I was thinking of carrying the new baby in a sling a lot of the time, at least that means she won't get sat on!

R3dh3d, this is probably crap advice but dd aged 10 with AS is still aggressive to ds (6), we have just started a new technique for addressing this and atm it seems to be working. When dd hurts/punches/pinches ds, instead of directing our attention to dd, saying no,stop it,it's not nice to do that because ..etc, we completely ignore her and go over the top with ds, ie "oh no that must have really hurt, oh let me give you a big cuddle, ooh that looks sore etc, really over the top/dramatic and lavishing ds with attention etc , dd now stops mesmorised watching us and will often, after processing what's being said will burst in to tears realising what she has just done or offer an apology/cuddle!! The aggressive behaviour to ds has also reduced.

dd1( has down syndrome) was 2y4m when dd2 was born - prior to her being born we did lots of talking about babies - she kissed and cuddled my belly and did things like kiss and say goodnight etc.

Lots of people bought dd1 dolls for her 2 yr birthday and when dd2 was born and she could not have cared less about them.... 6 months later - she was being a little mother to them and I would encourage her to feed/bath/ cuddle her baby when I was cuddling no2.

No2 was very demanding in the early days and there were the odd occasion when you could see dd1 felt left out... one particular day dd2 was just wanting me every minute of the day and wanting to feed almost hourly.... well dd1 got so fed up she bit me - hey it worked she got my attention.

We also made a fuss of dd1 with dd2 - in that we would talk to dd1 saying look at dd2 she is smiling at you etc... then say to dd2 - look at dd1 she is walking, talking whatever - yeh!! so try to make dd2 into dd1's cheer leader....Really don't have much of an idea about how much dd1 got from this but I think it helped to make a fuss of dd1 with dd2 iyswim.

We still have the odd incident when dd1 gets frustrated and dd2 gets pushed over or out of the way etc....then the next minute she loves her to death...... we just reinforce the gentle, gentle - do it by stroking dd1's face as we are saying gentle nad get her to stroke her own face so she knows what gentle is.....

I too had a section with dd2 and had dd1 not walking and that made it tough but we seemed to divide and conquer - dd1 got lots of daddy attention and time when I had to give it to dd2 and on the weekend we tried to give dd1 undivided mummy time when dd2 was with daddy or sleeping.

DOn't know how much of this is helpful but thought I would just offer our suggestions......

I too had a c-section and recovered much quicker than I did with dd1 also a c-section. Get some Arnica.... I am sure that helped me heal quicker.

When ds2 was born ds1 was non-verbal, just short of 3, and very passive. The main problem we had was that he (as in ds1) got very unhappy. He had no idea that a baby was coming and we'd done the dolls/books etc- but what does a doll/book have to do with a real baby to a severely autistic child iyswim) Time sorted that one out.

When we brought ds3 home ds1 was 5, still non-verbal, no longer passive, will pinch to make children scream to see inside their mouths. I'm afraid the only way was complete supervision. We did get a barrier thing built to the entrance to ds3's room so when he's in his cot ds1 can't get in the room to climb in (he likes sitting in the cot). I used a sling a lot- and would recommend the ergo as soon as your new baby is old enough to be back carried. If I was alone with ds1 and ds3 children putting ds3 in a sling was often the only way to deal with both of them. DS3 is 9 months now, and ds1 6. We can't have stairgates as ds1 will headbutt them, but we have a playpen and a play thing ds3 can sit in in the kitchen.

If your dd has no interest in babies you may be OK- I found that really ds1 ignores ds3 (unless he;s into pinching to get some screaming and to see inside the mouth- but that comes and goes). TBH he actively avoids both his brothers. DS3 will crawl up to ds1 now and try and pull himself up on him, but ds1 just flinches and moves away. The main problem we have now is that ds3 likes to play with doors and ds1 is very particular about doors- but the playpen can deal with that one. My friend's 8 year old autistic dd loves babies and she's more of a problem because if ds3 is left alone for even 2 seconds she will whizz in and pick him up (even when we're in the same room- by alone I mean put down on the floor to play).

Good luck- it will sort itself out. Expect some sleepless nights- sleeping was a real problem for ds1 after each birth, and don't assume that because your dd seems detached she won't mind. We made that mistake when ds2 was born.

Oh I did the real baby thing as well- but ds1 wasn't remotely interested. TBH I think if a child is non-verbal with very limited receptive language, and no ability to follow PECS worksheets (ds1 falls into this category still) then there is very little you can do for preparation.

Oh another mistake we made was to have ds1 visit me in hospital when ds2 was born by section. He had no idea why I was there, was completely floundered by having to leave and had no comprehension as to why ds2 was there, what he was or antyhing. When ds3 was born (agina by section) neither ds2 nor ds1 visited me- and ds1 was much better with that. We just appeared home with ds3- he ignored him mainly, prodded him a few times and then proceeded to climb on my lap and stand on c-section stitches. But emotionally was much better for not having left me in hospital iyswim.

just asked my friend whether she did anything to prepare her autistic dd- she said that all she did was makeawful screaming baby noises throughout her pregnancy (her dd is very noise sensitive!) to try and get her used to screaming!

Thought it was quite a good idea

oh another thought- how does your dd explore her environment? DS1 tends to smell things and feel them with his upper lip. We had to let him do that to ds3 even though it was a bit nerve wracking (opportunity for a pinch)- it wasa the only way he could explore him enough to be happy about his presence iyswim. Once he's been given a good sniff he was happier to ignore him

r3d3 I have a ds2 with SGGD and after I had ds3, he became extremely jealous of him. We couldnt leave them together alone as ds2 would punch, kick, poke ds3.
When ds3 was about 12m old I found ds2 kicking and poking him, ds3 was doing it back to him (it looked like something the 3 stooges get up to) so told them both to pack it in, that ds3 was here, that I loved them both and ds3 was staying forever then ds2 then became more loving towards him. Even though ds2 cant communicate I think he understands what I am saying.