Meeting tomorrow with LEA - telling them we going to tribunal

[starfish71]

As the title says am having a meeting lunchtime tomorrow to confirm to our LEA that I am sick of going round in circles and am going to appeal so they can finalise their rubbish statement then can get my appeal in.

I have already done it in letter to them but they asked for a meeting and just to show I have been as reasonable as possible will attend but am not going to back down - unless they are able to suddenly give me the ASD unit for DS.

They have stated that he needs an ASD unit/ learning support centre but can give me no idea when a place will be available. DS has just turned 7 and will be in year 3 this september and I can see him slipping further behind unless he gets a suitable placement.

Any advice on what to expect tomorrow, sure they are going to do their best to put me off going but I have been told by SNAP that I have a strong case so although very nervous about it all know I am doing the right thing.

Any hand holding very welcome, thanks x

Just wanted to say good luck. Have no experience of meeting with LA as I did offer to meet with mine but only after they had responded in writing to my long letter. They declined to meet and agreed to SA instead. From looking at threads here I would say just keep on pushing and show them how serious you are. You may find that a place is suddenly available.

Don't talk in the meeting. You might be cross but resist the urge to tell them all the reasons you have for going to tribunal.

LAs are getting better and better at this tribunal malarky. They will probably be sitting in silence too.

However, you might like to prepare some questions that YOU will need for tribunal (especially if it is minuted)

Like: Why will you not put the ASD unit in the statement if he needs it?

You can even ask them directly 'what will you tell the tribunal?'

nothing to add,just wanted to wish you luck

Good luck. Just remember they have a statutory duty to meet every one of his assessed needs. If they can't meet it locally they have to find a place elsewhere even if private or put specialist resources eg daily visit from outreach into mainstream or home tutoring even if they have to buy that in. Is there anywhere eg private / different LA he could go? They have to write a statement based on need they can't say the need is not there just because they can't find a place. They can always add places to units they just need to employ another member of staff.

Thank you all so much for responding. I will try to keep the talking to a minimum tomorrow and stand my ground. Really hope I can hold it together.

Dreading the back to school run tomorrow and the meeting just so frustrated - have had the proposed statement since September - I should have done this sooner. I am very naive and really thought once DS was assessed and proven to need a statement it would all fall into place..

Will update tomorrow after the meeting, once my nerves calm down.

Sorry it's short notice for tomorrow, but if there is anyway you can have someone come with you to take minutes on your behalf, it would be helpful both to be able to hold them to anything they offer in the meeting and to allow you to concentrate on the meeting itself. If not possible make a point of writing down anything important they say, as best you can. good luck for the meeting.

Thank you pinkorkid - am sitting here nervously before heading to meeting at 12 30. My husband is coming with me and I will take my notebook - do feel alone doing this though, have the feeling that family and some friends think I should just go with what they have agreed to - just leave DS where he is until a place at a unit comes up.

Going to try my best to stay calm today, will be back on here having a moan later am sure.

Oh Starfish This isn't the meeting to end all meetings. It's just a process. It's probably quite boring for the LA and they may well have a number of these types of meetings already in the diary.

Don't be nervous. Be quiet but determined.

I know what you mean re family and friends. My parents are both teachers and were horrified when I started down the tribunal route.

Luckily for me, my mum at least would now have been more horrified if I hadn't. You can't believe it unless you live it.

Good luck!

Thanks startingafresh, I am going to, as you say, look at it as a process that has to be done. Sure everyone apart from hubby thinks I have gone a bit bonkers but having said that they haven't accepted DS's diagnosis yet either so not too much support there really!

Oh well quick brush through hair then off!

starfish if you've had the proposed statement since September, they should definitely have finalised it by now. They are supposed to take 8 weeks to finalise a statement from sending out the proposed statement. I think they can extend that if you've requested a meeting, but it sounds like this was your first meeting so they had no reason to delay it before now.

I hope you've had a good outcome from the meeting but I tend to see it as part of the appeal process, as you say.

Write to them afterwards to confirm anything that was said/agreed during the meeting and insist on them finalising the statement asap, making reference to the statutory timeline. You won't be able to appeal until the statement is finalised.

Bet you're exhausted.

Hope it went well (you know what I mean by well)!

Hope the meeting went well.

Guess you already know that you can withdraw from the tribunal process anytime after you start it BUT starting it will show them that you are serious. You can still negotiate with them after you start the tribunal process. At present it is taking 5 - 6 months from when you send in your appeal form so it is better you get yours in and then continue to show willing by meeting with them.

Good luck.

Oh dear I am not sure that I did very well yesterday to be homest. Here goes this is what happened -

I kept quite and listened to him saying that there has been a big meeting that morning and that he is very hopeful that more places are going to be available in September at the school I want for DS.

Then went on to say that obviously they do not want to go to tribunal as it does not look good on the authority and is looking to neogiate as much as possible.

Told me that he should know by next week if there will be a definite place for DS in September which he would be willing to put in the final statement and will try arrange specialist support for 5 to 10 hours in additional to the 15 hours currently in the statement.

So if that is the case DS would defintely have the placement I want in September with the addition of specialist support while waiting.

I told him that I will hold fire until he gets back to me but made it clear that I would only consider if placement is written into final statement stating that is where he will start in September 2011 and has specailist support in his current primary school.

He did get a bit bullying to my mind at the end when he said that if we did go to tribunal and they went in our favour and made the unit accept an extra pupil - DS - then the parents of the other pupils may not be very happy!! And that he would fight to keep the current ratio of pupils.

Did I do really badly? Am I really stupid to give them another week?

I did feel that I did show that I am serious and will not compromise on what I asked for.

What is your honest opinions?

Didn't sleep last night.

I have also reqested DS's school records in case I do get to appeal.

I have just read back and sounds a bit confusing - apparently the 'big meeting' is about expanding the unit but didn't tell me when that will be. But he did say 2 pupils are leaving in July so is trying to secure a definite place in Sept for DS.

Oh god am confusing myself now.

Needless to say I din't enjoy meeting...

Well done for getting through the meeting. It sounds like the LA know that you have a strong case and that your DS should really be in the unit.

Now you just need to make sure you hold them to finalising the statement by next week. It will be good if you can get a confirmed place by September, but you must have started the statementing process by May I think, so it's unacceptable that your child should only be getting the right provision in September this year. Do you think 5-10 hours specialist support will be enough for the next two terms? FT support would be 32.5 hours.

It sounds like they're keen to avoid tribunal but as tryingtokeepintune says, it's useful to start the appeals process to show you're serious. It takes such a long time to get a hearing date that they may give in by then.

Are there any other aspects of the statement which you think need changing, eg. parts 2/3?

Yes sugar started the process in Feb last year so been a very long time. I will wait until next Wednesday and then if not happy am going to submit my appeal or lodge my appeal I think is first step?

There are a few changes in parts 2 and 3 which I have asked to be changed so again if this isn't done then I can't accept final statement.

To be honest I am worrying that I am being a bit too accommodating. Preparing for a long week but am going to start putting together my case in case it doesn't go my way next week.

So upset today, DS is so lovely and it just seems awful having to push for what he needs and although his mainstream are a bit useless with many things he has been happy there, not being taught as he needs but happy. I am doing all this which means he will get the education he needs but know transition will be hard for him.

Not easy process all round is it?

Only just read your update, not the posts that follow and it doesn't sound like you did badly at all.

There are two things to bear in mind:

1. None of us come out of these meetings pleased with ourselves and we all analyse and analyse and can be critical. But this is because of the emotive subject. You haven't changed your position, you have given them a chance of a week that's all.

2. Bullying behaviour stems from fear usually. Take it as a good sign.

Now the thing you need to be aware of is that you should try to have your final statement by the 15th February to ensure that you can get through the tribunal process in time for September. Your ds isn't a transfer child so won't be prioritised by SENDIST but appealling before the closure of allocated places will go in your favour as if they say they have no places left, you can point out that that is their mistake as you gave them ample warning.

If you can bear it at all, you need now to write to them thanking them for the 'productive meeting' and clarifying that they told you that 2 children are leaving in July, that they are considering expanding the unit (not really relevant but you may as well produce the evidence to the tribunal that this is at least possible) and that they will let you know within a week whether your ds will be attending in September.

You might also like to clarify in this letter that you have not understood what alternative they are planning if your ds does not get a place. Ask them to confirm if he will be home-tutored or placed out of county at a different school that can meet his needs.

HTH

And if they mentioned that parents will be angry with you for your ds attending the unit and not theirs, point out that you will politely inform them that their anger is misplaced as it is not your responsibility to ensure there are enough specialist placements. You will then refer them on to bully man.

Starfish As tiresome as it sounds I would prepare your appeal regardless. It is a way of collecting your thoughts and strengthening your position even if you don't have to submit it, and it will give you an air of confidence at any subsequent meetings/telephone conversations, as well as stopping you from sinking into despair if the answer is no.

I agree with Star about preparing the appeal - it does help you focus your arguments. As the statementing process has gone on for so long, I would just tell them to finalise it regardless of what placement is named, then lodge an appeal immediately. If you try to continue negotiating without letting them finalise the statement, it may be too late to get a place in time for September, given that it takes 5-6 months to get an appeal heard.

Have you run the statement past any of the charities, to look at the wording in parts 2&3? Hopefully, if he gets the unit, the details won't be as crucial as if he ends up in mainstream, but it's always worth getting it as tightly worded as you can. IPSEA and SOS SEN can look over the proposed statement in detail. There's also a guide on the ACE website.

Please don't pay any attention to the threats about other parents getting angry. It would definitely be misplaced and I'm not sure if other parents would be angry at you in that situation, if I were one of those parents I would recognise it as a failing by the LA and not blame another parent.

Thank you Star and sugar. I will come back and have a proper read of your advice after sorting boys tea.

Right, tea done, showers and bath out of the way! I have a few minutes while DH plays lego with youngest DS!

I will definitely get them to finalise statement by 15th February in case we go to tribunal so thanks for that star. Must admit I haven't done my follow up letter to him yet 'thanking' him but will do that tomorrow - still a bit cross with him tonight! I will also ask about what arrangements there would be if DS doesn't get a place - I had already asked previously that can they look out of county if no places in our authority - no answer to that one as yet.

Thanks sugar I am now preparing myself for having to go to tribunal if it all goes wrong next week but will be asking loads of advice from you all if it comes to that.

I thought it was a bit of a cheap tactic saying that other parents would be cross with me and my DS but I did get an idea of what he would be like to face across the table at tribunal. I will need to get myself very prepared and to stop myself from either hitting him or crying.

Thank you again, really means alot to me.

Sorry to hijack guys, quick question: how many hours a week are you all spending on this process? (am going to request SA before half term so we know the outcome before juniors, but I am pretty overwhelmed as it is so want to start planning what life areas to drop). Thanks, Maria

I think you did great but you should push for FT specialist support.
If they issue a statement naming a ASD unit then they actually have a statutory duty to provide it immediately.
I am a bit worried they may issue a statement which does not name the unit because otherwise they are laying themselves open to legal challenge.
That happened to someone else on here where they named a mainstream school not a special school as there were no places.
Look at IPSEA website about what to do if you get the statement you want but its not implemented - you don't appeal - you have to go to Ombudsman or take legal action I think. You only appeal if they do not name what you want.

Come back and tell us what happens but I agree I would definitely get advice.
Don't listen to the cheap shots they always use these tactics - can you imagine the NHS saying how dare you bring your sick child into hospital don't you realise how pissed off the other patients will be about having to share the ward and doctors.

If they refuse FT tell them to prove to you that they cannot accommodate another child and an extra teacher in the unit - or that there are no private providers which can take your child.

You might want to contact your MP because this raises concerns for other children and our MP has got several children places where none apparently existed.

If you do have to appeal to SEND then you can ask for an early hearing date - there is a form on website and send this with your appeal and reasons why its urgent.

Have you thought about a thread asking about other placements which might be near you? People on here might be able to come up with some alternatives. We do ABA so I would say find out if there are any ABA providers who could support your child in mainstream (they definitely won't want to pay for this)! We get 35 hours a week of ABA (won at tribunal) at home and in mainstream. Ring yourself and find out if any private places have places now. Specialist schools take children in at any time not just once a term.

Also be clear - what do they mean by specialist support? Do they mean a specialist ASD teacher? A specialist TA? A normal TA who has been on a 1 day autism course? Specialist SALT?

When you write definitely say "you agreed that my child's needs could only be met at an ASD unit / requires daily specialist teaching - however currently you are unable to provide this...etc' Just in case they issue a statement naming mainstream with support and deny saying the unit was essential. I would not say you have agreed to wait 7 months, I would say you are considering their offer of provision in the interim and will be taking advice. Even if you have agreed you can say on reflection I think your offer of PT provision is not appropriate etc or I would like to take advice on this....

Never feel you have to stick to what you say in a meeting they are so stressful its fine to actually change your mind once you have had time to think it over, especially when you are being bullied.

There are several cases on Local Govt Ombudsman website where child did not get provision needed and parents paid privately and LGO got this refunded eg delayed implementing statement. Also a recent case by NAS where they argued was breach of human rights not to provide appropriate education (the case was not successful but the principle that they should be able to make provision for all but the most extreme cases was established). Is on NAS website

I think you should consider speaking to an education lawyer for a free interview as I suspect if they don't make specialist ASD provision you could take legal action. Remember your child has actually been without this provision they agree he needs for several months already.

Don't feel you have to take their offer. Consider it only a first offer!