Oppositional Defiant Disorder - help please?

[Lulu41]

It has been suggested by the SENCO at my ds's school that this may be what we are looking at. I have read up on it and Ds certainly does display many if not all of the behaviours. What I need to know is anyone out there dealing with the same and how. I am feeling really down about our relationship as its a constant battle and seriously want to improve it and as there appears to be little treatment only suggestions of parent programmes was wondering if you guys could help, please !!!

hi i did read a little about it to me it seemed be more challenging behaviour/resisting. My ds has the habit of diving to the floor when he doesn't want to do something and usually has to be forced to get up, he does it when he's sad too or tired, he's unpredictable, kicks, hits.... I would try the American websites they seem more clued up on it. Hopefully someone else will have more knowledge about it. HTH

Sounds like the kind of children supernanny deals with. Have you tried implementing some of her techniques?

Hi Lulu

My ds displays behaviours associated with ADHD and ODD as well as some AS traits although he doesn't have a diagnosis.

Our paed gave us a program designed for children with ADHD a few months ago and we have definately seen an improvement. The paed says that in his opinion children who have ODD also have ADHD.

I can send you a copy of the program if you want. I'll have to send it in the post as my scanner isn't working. CAT me and let me know.

amynnixmum - I don't mean to be push but would you mind if I could get a copy of this also - I think this is what DS has - at the minute he is being assessed by the behavioural management team in school and has a helper 1 and half days a week but the last two weeks he seems to be worse - when we done the connors test he came out worst at home than in school - some ADHD traits - makes me feel that I am the problem at home - I do try to be consistent but it is hard and to top it all off have a 9 week old to deal with too - DS is not too bad when only me him and baby but as soon as Dad comes home from work or we get visitors he goes off on one.

Sorry for hijacking
Let me know if I can CAT you.
Ta

essbee is the one you need for this

Hiya
Only have access during weekdays - what is CAT? I would like a copy of your programme. Thanks

Lulu
CAT is to 'contact another talker'- its listed under Useful Stuff at the top of the page.

Cosmo
No problem - you are welcome to a copy. Please don't feel as though you are to blame about your DS behaviour. Loads of children play their parents up. Its hard to be consistant I know - the program is designed to last approx 8 weeks but DH and I really struggled with the first few steps as it was all about changing how we do things. It was worth sticking with it though. Good luck with the assessment.

Oppositional defiant disorder? Please dont get me wrong here folks, but that sounds like psycho babble to me. When did this term evolve?? Pardon my ignorance but did you know the acronym for this is O.D.D.? Odd indeed. To me it describes my two year old toddler. What research is there into this "disorder", can it not be explained by many other things? It sounds as vague as autism and i would be interested what "they" are doing to correct it. I mean how do they deal with O.D.D.?

In my son's diagnosis for autism, the paed said he was "self directed" and "independent". Again, what exactly does self directed mean in terms of a two year old. What i am getting at, is this sounds again like a term for something they just cant explain. Thus, as parents we are left with this "label" and dont know what to do with it.

I kind of like it though, O.D.D. Yep, my son acts up and wont do what i tell him. but you see, he has this "disorder" called Oppositional defiant disorder". "No, i dont know what causes it, no, i dont know what to do about it, but at least i know what to call it". That sure wouldnt make me feel any better.

Try this:

www.upliftwy.org/publications/dls/odd_pub.pdf

Sorry, I'm rubbish at links...

I believe ODD is genuine as does J's psychiatrist. A friend whose son was assessed at the same department had it suggested for his behaviour before his dx of AS about a year ago.

mamadadawahwah - you obviously do not have a child with a problem - lucky you

just re-read your post - you do have a child with autism so why so uptight for want of a better word about others problems?

MMDDWW,

Just because you do not understand or are ignorant of this does not mean to say that it does not exist or is some sort of "pyscho babble". It is a very real disorder with wide ranging consequences for everyone caught up in it. It often goes in tandem with other disorders - ADHD for example.

Lulu, yeah, i guess i am "uptight" as having my kid labelled. He is autistic and that label means NOTHING again. I took the time to read about ODD and just like autism or PDDNOS, all these labels do is label. They dont offer any explanation. Ok, granted if your child gets this label, at least you might be onto something in terms of changing "your" behaviour around your child, to effect change in him. Your child has a label for his behaviours but he hasnt got a cure.

Just as in autism, do doctors who diagnose O.D.D. suggest you look into the child's diet? blood screens/urine samples? Do they investigate what is going on with the childs immunity, the child's "ecosystem"?

Just as in PDD NOS. THe NOS stands for not otherwise specified. I mean how vague can you get? Yet parents are expected to take this label seriously, like it means there is a "treatment". Then when they seek the "treatment" they get 10,000 different answers. Cause at the end of the day the docs dont know what causes PDD NOS, Autism or O.D.D.

At least with autism/pdd I can get services for my child. Is this possible with O.D.D.? Or are the parents just "blamed" and expected to do all the work?
hmmm

I also see that ritalin is suggested at least on the net, as a "treatment" for O.D.D. just like ADHD.

Our kids act like this for a reason. Do adults get the label O.D.D., cause i know plenty of adults with similar behaviours.

O.D.D. sound like a yet another assault on our children and a distinct unwillingness on the part of the medical community to really find out what is going on with them. Every behaviour happens for a reason. You can label it, categorise it etc etc but at the end of the day, all you have is a label for observed behaviours. It helps parents maybe, to know their child is O.D.D., oh yeah, Jimmy is O.D.D., so give him a break. That dosent help jimmy though.

I have to say this is a new one to me and i am absolutely floored by it. I really find it incredible where we are going with labelling kids. They are O.D.D. so lets give them ritalin. They are ADHD, lets give them ritalin. They are autistic, now lets send them to a special school with no help and hope for the best.

Puhlease!! If you start buying into this stuff, where will it end? is there a child alive who dosent have a label these days?

triad of impairments is equally vague. What exactly does that mean across a spectrum of millions of kids and how does one even begin to address the "impairment". Is it neurological or is it immunological? What comes first the chicken or the egg? Are my sons neurological abilities being impeded from his immune system/nutritional deficiencies or did he start out with a neurological problem? Same goes with the genetic explanation for autism. Were my sons genes naturally maladapted to a toxic environment or did the toxic environment screw up my genes before he conceived?

O.D.D. should be investigated by NSPCC. Yet another assault against children and independence. How can our kids be expected to grow if their every tantrum and adverse reaction to parents is pigeonholed and "treated"????

O.D.D. does NOT sound like something children are suffering from, but rather something parents are "instilling" or "withholding". Again, sounds like parent blame again, to me. Your kid dosent "fit", now do something about it, etc etc.

Its all about defiance vs cooperation. Why is cooperation so hugely important for our kids today? We all have to fit into our pigeon holes and do circle time like nice little girls and boys. Well, i for one, hated circle time. O.D.D. sounds like something out of George Orwell. Really really startling. The biggest load of B.S. i have heard in a long time.

excellent website:

www.nu-world.com/~jls/

This web site explains how behaviour management cannot be a "one size fits all" approach and gives excellent things to consider in trying to "change" your child's behaviour.

I have just read the link on ODD, and my ds1 fits the behaviour and frequency that they describe, all except for the tantrums (they say only 4 or more symptoms are required though).

However, I dont think that he needs ritalin or any other drug. I think he is just an intelligent, mischievous, rebellious boy who likes challenging authority.

I agree with your point mddww, some of the ideas expressed in the leaflet could be misused to control children to a certain way of thinking.

tbh, this was one of the reasons why we wanted our children to be educated in France, where they are much more laid back about things (although excellent medical help is available of course if needed). Every time I read a mumsnet thread about being summoned to school for a serious talk with the teachers about a child's behaviour, or special experts being called in, or a child suspended, I heave a sigh of relief that we dont have to contend with all that.
Especially as ds1's behaviour is rather worse than some of the incidents recounted in such situations.

btw, dont you think that Dennis the Menace suffers from Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

MMDDWW- there is nothing vague about a diagnosis of autism. The triad of impairments is quite specific. Children vary on the level of impairments which is why you get a spectru), but my severely affected Spectrum's are common in any developmental disability. It's certainly true of say DS - where they know it is 100% genetic. It doesn't stop people with DS varying wildly- after all they are all individuals, but doesn;t ake the "label" any less valid.

They also certainly not sending autistic children to special school with "no help". They may dump them in mainstream with no help, but special schools that are geared to autism are often excellent.

We have over 20 children with asd where I work. the most help they get is half time support. Now that is what I call 'dumping' them

Compared to a special school a friend works at that has 1 to 1 for all asd children. It is also open 24/7/365 is needed

mamadadawahwah you sound v.dissalusioned maybe your diagnosis wasn't helpful to you. For a lot of others it helps to understand where to start looking for answers and target the specific needs our kids have. As an example my elder ds has dyslexia/dyspraxia it helped me and him to understand his problems. I spent more time reading with him,playing word games, explained that he had to try harder than other kids (dyslexia).With regards the dyspraxia just sent him to lots of sports clubs, cubs, archery, potholing, absailing etc and never felt the need to tell him. Only now he's 17 as he joined the army and his fine motor skills have shown to be a problem due to the precise movements required and co-ordination, it hasn't held him back though. The label just helped him to get to grips with his problem.

It is also really hard to get a specialist placement these days, so children are not dumped in Special School.

I looked at that link and it described my dd2 to a T. I've never thought of her as having a condition with a particular name, I've just regarded her as being 'more of a challenge' than my other three children. Thank fully, now she's older she's easier to handle, though still has her moments.