autism should be hidden away?

[amberlight]

I was given a copy of an email from an autism charity yesterday. In it, the person said that people on the autism spectrum surely all wanted no-one else to know that we're autistic.

The subject was autism assistance dogs and whether they are of use in the workplace for some of us. The writer said that such dogs would surely be seen as nothing more than a badge of difference, and that they couldn't imagine that people on the autism spectrum would want anyone to know that they are in any way different.

The writer also said that most people on the autism spectrum want to work in computers or admin jobs and therefore a dog wouldn't have a purpose as a social skills 'tool' or have any other useful workplace function anyway.

The writer also said that people who are more profoundly affected by autism are pretty much unemployable anyway (!), whereas the higher functioning people wouldn't want this kind of support.

This is all very odd. Guide dogs and assistance dogs work with people who are blind, deaf, mobility-impaired, have epilepsy, etc. They already go into workplaces to support all those people, and to my knowledge none of those people believe the dog is a way for people to be prejudiced against their disability. Why would it be different for us, if we wanted such a dog?

I have an autism assistance dog. He's absolutely great. it's an informal scheme so far, but I'd personally love to see it formalised. I work with the Dogs for the Disabled PAWS scheme, helping train their staff on the autism spectrum. The scheme helps hundreds of families who see the benefits of having a dog for their child on the autism spectrum.

So, as parents of children on the autism spectrum, do you believe that this person is right - that your child should only wish to work in IT or admin away from places where social skills are important?

When they're older, would you see an assistance dog as a negative thing that singles out a worker as 'different'?

Would you like your children to have the option of an assistance dog if they so chose? (i.e. would you like it if the dog helped them to settle into work, make friends, relax, not over-focus on things, be better at timekeeping etc? Would you like it if a dog could help your child's future independence?)

Or do you believe, like this person at a large autism charity, that dogs are going to be negative things for adults on the autism spectrum? He didn't seem to have asked anyone before announcing this, so I thought I would.

I would be very happy if ds could get a job anywhere - it wouldn't worry ne if he had to take a dog (or a cat!) to work. I agree there can be over stereotyping of autistic people 'working with computers'. Not everyone is going to be able to do that. Some who can might want a dog, others might not - I don't think there is going to be one answer that fits all situations.

Our friend who is AS works in a dr, working in a hospital, so there would probably be 1 or 2 issues - he saves his computer geek for home! lost count of the number of times i have asked for his help in both subjects!
TBH - you would notice that he has a few social quirks regardless of whether he had an assistance dog or not. In which case i think it should be personal preference.
He is our friend because of who he is - brutally honest, no side to him. Perhaps we should turn society on it's head and have noisy loudmouthed lying sleazy s*s wearing some kind of 'disability' badge so we could all avoid them?

I very much doubt ds1 (as) will have a job in it as he's shown no interest in computers.

He's very sociable and craves company, but has many problems fitting in/working out social rules as you'd expect. So if a dog could help with that I'd be all for it.

Tbh he's very nervous of dogs unless they're tiny puppies-and he has to be convinced they're not cats.

I'd give anything a go-would be fabulous for him to have unconditionally loving continuous company in the form of a dog. My widowed mother got a dog for the same reason-company, increases sociability, gives her a routine, gets her out of the house.

I can see why you'd be a bit miffed at such a personal poiint of view being circulated like that-too many generalisations.

how does a dog help with a social and communication disorder? Guide dogs see for you, hearing dogs hear for you, autism dogs - talk to people in a socially acceptable way for you?

My eldest knows he's got autism. In fact, atm he's using it as an excuse for everything ranging from not being able to tidy his bedroom to being unable to find socks. I sing "what a load of rubbish" at him and he laughs we've turned it into a game. I can quite see him doing something technical because he loves gadgets and things.

My youngest has no clue that he's got autism. He's more severely affected - doesn't know he's different, doesn't care. Just lives in the moment. He'd never buckle down and do something that required you to be logical and methodical . He's a flamboyant drama queen, destined for a life on the stage. Loves art and music too. and dance. So def headed in the arty-crafty direction.

Sorry Riven - i think it's just i usually use my DS is dyspraxic, or has dyspraxia - but when i put in Aspergers, it comes up aspirers. so i was lazy in abbreviating/typing. no offence intended to DS1

Sam stood up in class and gave a talk on his AS on the spur of the moment; far from being hidden away he thinks he has a right to be accepted for whom he is.

Good on him.

DS3 doesn;t understand there's any difference between him and his NT peers.

We can;t have a dog anyway, becuase of the elase, but although ds2 would adore one and ds3 rather like one ds1 hates them so that woudl be that.

I do dislike anything telling me what a person with asd is like; mine are so different. A person with ASD has social issues, possiibly language issues at some elvel (delay, literalness, semantic pragmatic), obsessions and / or routines, maybe physical stims....

beyond that level they are just people in all thier infinite variety.

And just a heads up but sometimes these leaflets wre written by people with an asd, which is great but fior some people with an ASD lack of ability to empathise or generalise is a feature; I don;t beleive it's true of all but certainly Sam thinks everyone thinks like him and can't accept otherwise. I have seen that in ASD charity / publications before now. It's just something to bear in mind.

The dogs- aren;t they about having something that accepts you, company, etc? That non judgemental stuff that people with ASD can struggle to get from peers in RL.

I can see the value tbh. I have a lot of traits at elast and have ahd some fairly lonely times, although for me it was always cats.

DS1 will work, design, jewlerry probably but something of that ilk/ He is very motivated to make a million anyway and I could see that- either that or he will end up in prison trying. DS3 won;t, his attention span is just too short and he has to be reminded every 2 minutes about what he should be doing. No secondary attention channel you see: whatever is there eats it all up- makes things complicated. only possibility is IT as he's very good with it, but whilst we hope we know reality.

Yep Sam tried that too; didn;t work here either.

DS3 gets chored but there are a few he can do so we stick with that- he will tidy the front room but ask him to do the bedroom and he ahs a panic attack. So, the front room it is then.

we wanted an assisstance dog but bot allowed as we have more than one child with ASD :(

Personally I dont care who know about my girls, they are their own person and ASD is part of that.
Im dyslexic but dont give a damn about anyone knowing but has taken me a long time to get to this place.
I would love to see more knowledge about HFA in places as most people still belive Autistim is that person in the corner rocking or the rainman

Bit of extra info about this:

This was an email suggesting not bothering to fund or support autism assistance dogs for adults, as they said they couldn't see the point of them for those reasons (without asking any of us first or doing any research on it).

Interestingly, in areas with a different attitude, the dogs have these benefits:

Encouraging people to interact with the person - they are often keen to talk about the dog, so it's a good topic of safe conversation and often useful as a social introduction-tool for fellow workers.

The dog is often fantastic at providing something to hug or focus on when we're stressed or anxious or upset. The dog is calm, and we can focus on that rather than the panic.

The dog can help us remember to take exercise regularly, and break our concentration regularly if we're overfocusing on things.

The dog loves a structured routine and simple rules, and mostly so do we, so it helps give us confidence in things being predictable.

The dog can help some of us avoid danger, e.g. some of us are pretty bad at crossing busy roads when we're deep in thought etc and the dog can remind us to stop and think.

The dog can give some people confidence to go to new places and cope with new events, acting as a support companion - useful for attending work conferences etc.

With only 15% of us working at the moment and the government keen to get as many of us to work as possible, I would have thought it was worth a bit of research at least.

oh dear god lisa, rainman. I have little voodoo dolls of Bass and Morrow. If I ever get my hands on them...

Depends on the assistance dog. A fully trained one similar to those for the Blind would be £10k a dog, yes. But a pet dog that has been trained up locally to a Good Citizen type scheme might only cost £500 in total, and provide 8 years of useful assistance for that initial investment (plus the usual pet dog costs over their lifetime). Bearing in mind that attending just one conference on autism and employment last week was nearly £300, that's not a bad sum.

Alas, there aren't that many people on the autism spectrum who can cope without some sort of support and adapation at work. It's why they reckon only 15 out of 100 of us are in meaningful work at the moment.

The government thinks there's 100,000 of us on the autism spectrum who are looking for work in the UK, and who would very much like to work.

If (say) even 1 in 20 of that number of people would benefit from an assistance dog at work, that's a heck of lot of people who are given that most basic of human rights - financial independence. Shouldn't we as a society at least research the possibilities rather than dismiss it? It worries me.

I don't think autism should be hidden away, not at all.

But my son hates dogs, will probably work with computers or in a job that requires no social skills and would gain absolutely no benefit from a dog. He would also absolutely hate to work in an office/ building where one was and would probably have to leave that job. Not all people with autism are the same, as we all know.

I'm not convinced that a dog would help with social skills and timekeeping etc. enough to outweigh the horror for my son if a colleague brought one in and I certainly don't think it's a good use of funds, tbh. It would be under the (small) list of things I think should be firmly under the heading of 'to be paid for by DLA' as any formal scheme would spend millions in bollocksy admin and I don't believe that the benefits would be widespread enough to justify that.

I'd much rather proper support was put in in work - from people - e.g. training for colleagues on how to work with people on the autistic spectrum, training for the employee themself on social skills etc. etc.
That's where I feel the funding should go.

Yes, the idea of a dog helping with timekeeping is a bit funny. Got an image of a dog tapping its watch and going "get a shufty on, we're late!"

I have no idea how a dog can help with timekeeping. Can they tell the time?

And as to social skills...

That's a nice dog

clifford the big red dog and tasty food now at mcdonalds

erm. ok.

As an adult with ASD who has a child with ASD, I concur with you amberlight.

The writer obviously has trouble understanding that people with ASD should not have to account for others' perception of it.
People just are different, with ASD or without.
If someone at work decides to dye their hair fire engine red, or only drinks herbal tea, this is seem as "different", but accepted - why can't these dogs be?

I can't use a computer well enough to have a job which could be considered "working with computers" over an admin job, a job which I also hate! because they depend far more on social skills than the writer appears to realise.
I know this from experience because I am employable :)

I would love DS to have the option of a dog to assist him in any way.

Are you going to name and shame this "large autism charity"?

but nobody is saying they shouldn't be an option, are they? Just not a thing that will be beneficial to everyone and therefore not worth pumping lots of resources into.

Amber, in answer to your points:

The writer also said that people who are more profoundly affected by autism are pretty much unemployable anyway (!), whereas the higher functioning people wouldn't want this kind of support.

I would largely agree with this. People with classic/ severe autism don't have the best employment record and would be better supported by a person than a dog. Most of the high-functioning teens and adults I know hate any kind of singling out e.g. many teens hate being the only one in class with a TA, so wouldn't want a dog to single them out at work

This is all very odd. Guide dogs and assistance dogs work with people who are blind, deaf, mobility-impaired, have epilepsy, etc. They already go into workplaces to support all those people, and to my knowledge none of those people believe the dog is a way for people to be prejudiced against their disability. Why would it be different for us, if we wanted such a dog?

I think it's different because the dog replaces something in someone who's blind or deaf - their sight or their hearing. In epilepsy, they can sense the seisure coming. What do they replace in autism?

do you believe that this person is right - that your child should only wish to work in IT or admin away from places where social skills are important?

No - but reality dictates that it's unlikely that people with ASD will pick the sociable jobs - or be picked for them, so it's not an unreasonable assumption. Remember that place in (?)Holland, where the dad of a boy with ASD set up a business purely for people on the spectrum to work in? All of the people/ children with autism that I know (4 in the family and many many more through work and parents' groups) work or want to work in computers, music technology or a solitary business like painting/ decorating/ plumbing. I can't see a dog helping with any of those jobs.

When they're older, would you see an assistance dog as a negative thing that singles out a worker as 'different'?

Yes, I would - but not in a necessarily negative way - more to the point, less enlightened people would see it as different in a negative way.

Would you like your children to have the option of an assistance dog if they so chose? (i.e. would you like it if the dog helped them to settle into work, make friends, relax, not over-focus on things, be better at timekeeping etc? Would you like it if a dog could help your child's future independence?)

I guess people do have the option. My son wouldn't take it. And I don't believe a dog could make a difference to any of those things except possibly relaxing

I think, Amber, it's different for you because you have a high-powered job in your own business. This alters the power dynamic massively and all credit to you for being able enough to create that for yourself, but many many people on the spectrum less high-functioning/ able/ financially well off than yourself can't achieve that for themselves and therefore work in a job where they don't have that kind of autonomy and are more subject to bullying etc.

Sadly, a dog would increase chances of that.

I think pushing for funding for more awareness etc. etc. will have more impact, tbh.

Sorry, crap bolding - will try again

but nobody is saying they shouldn't be an option, are they? Just not a thing that will be beneficial to everyone and therefore not worth pumping lots of resources into.

Amber, in answer to your points:

The writer also said that people who are more profoundly affected by autism are pretty much unemployable anyway (!), whereas the higher functioning people wouldn't want this kind of support.

I would largely agree with this. People with classic/ severe autism don't have the best employment record and would be better supported by a person than a dog. Most of the high-functioning teens and adults I know hate any kind of singling out e.g. many teens hate being the only one in class with a TA, so wouldn't want a dog to single them out at work

This is all very odd. Guide dogs and assistance dogs work with people who are blind, deaf, mobility-impaired, have epilepsy, etc. They already go into workplaces to support all those people, and to my knowledge none of those people believe the dog is a way for people to be prejudiced against their disability. Why would it be different for us, if we wanted such a dog?

I think it's different because the dog replaces something in someone who's blind or deaf - their sight or their hearing. In epilepsy, they can sense the seisure coming. What do they replace in autism?

do you believe that this person is right - that your child should only wish to work in IT or admin away from places where social skills are important?

No - but reality dictates that it's unlikely that people with ASD will pick the sociable jobs - or be picked for them, so it's not an unreasonable assumption. Remember that place in (?)Holland, where the dad of a boy with ASD set up a business purely for people on the spectrum to work in? All of the people/ children with autism that I know (4 in the family and many many more through work and parents' groups) work or want to work in computers, music technology or a solitary business like painting/ decorating/ plumbing. I can't see a dog helping with any of those jobs.

When they're older, would you see an assistance dog as a negative thing that singles out a worker as 'different'?

Yes, I would - but not in a necessarily negative way - more to the point, less enlightened people would see it as different in a negative way.

Would you like your children to have the option of an assistance dog if they so chose? (i.e. would you like it if the dog helped them to settle into work, make friends, relax, not over-focus on things, be better at timekeeping etc? Would you like it if a dog could help your child's future independence?)

I guess people do have the option. My son wouldn't take it. And I don't believe a dog could make a difference to any of those things except possibly relaxing

I think, Amber, it's different for you because you have a high-powered job in your own business. This alters the power dynamic massively and all credit to you for being able enough to create that for yourself, but many many people on the spectrum less high-functioning/ able/ financially well off than yourself can't achieve that for themselves and therefore work in a job where they don't have that kind of autonomy and are more subject to bullying etc.

Sadly, a dog would increase chances of that.

I think pushing for funding for more awareness etc. etc. will have more impact, tbh.