So come and see the latest suggestion for our ASD ds!

[ASDShocker]

Name Changer here. Today at a multi disciplinary meeting it was suggested that ds, aged 8, HFA, diagnosed, full 32 hour statement with one to one, SALT and OT input, be put into a Behavioural Unit for children who have behavioural issues in the school environment, "for ASD kids?" I enquired, no NT kids. Apparently the Ed Psych thinks my ASD son's issues could benefit from input from such a place.

I didn't say much at the time, but I am absolutely furious now. It seems clear to me that for this to even be suggested shows a complete lack of understanding of his condition.

Can I just ask what your opinions of this are please?

Sorry, I said I didn't say much but I did manage a clear and resounding "NO" before the words were barely out of her mouth.

Is it Leonie? I was beginning to think it was only me that thought so, everyone else was just quiet but I wondered if they were waiting to see what I would say.

I am actually horrified that they would think that this would be suitable for him, he is significant difficulties socially, he is very verbal but a lot of it is mimicking and some echolalia. He also has massive sensory issues that often trigger meltdowns. Surely to suggest that a "Unit" for behavioural issues for an ASD child shows a total lack of understanding of his difficulties.

Offer to have a look round, and then refuse again in writing with asd specific reasons. If they're that thick, they might try it on again in future. Or say 'parents declined appropriate provision'

DS was sent to an EBD at 6 when he had the diagnosis of ADHD, communication and language difficulties and GDD we suspected he had ASD but psychologist refused to diagnose despite years of ed psychologist and DR arguing with her over it.
The teachers where super though from day 1 and as soon as it became clear he was ASD that was how they taught him but he never mimicked just hid and withdrew into himself when faced with bad behaviour.

I don't condone this suggestion but it's my experience that the majority of kids in units like these have SEN, and many of them have ASD-type difficulties. A good EBD unit is a very calm, controlled, structured place where they do a lot of work on emotional regulation, co-operation with others, social skills, problem solving and usually have a very behavioural approach e.g. lots of reinforcers, individualised progs etc.

Again, not saying this is what's right for your ds at all but the image of a school for naughty kids being somewhat like a borstal is often not really accurate. It can be, mind you.. really dependent on borough etc.

NOT saying I think this is where your ds should go.. not AT ALL.. just wondering if this is why it has been suggested..

What a fucking ridiculously idiotic idea.

I worked in a local Pupil Referral Unit for a year. We had one ASD kid, and he was absolutely terrorised. He couldn't be taught in the regular classes, he had to be placed seperately in the 6day provision bit. He insisted on being accompanied everywhere by a member of staff, and had to use the staff toilet because it was too dangerous to let him use the student one.

I agree with Working; many of the kids I worked with had SEN, a lot of which was actually caused by issues in their family lives. We treated them accordingly. But nothing like the way you would educate a kid with ASD.

PS, this was GCSE aged kids.

Good grief, that is terrible! Not very helpful at all.

Does your EP have any idea about ASD?

Ugh, maybe you could by them a childs book explaning what ASD is, they might learn something... ;)

Makes no sense at all - behavioural problems that might rub off on your DS, and since they have behavioural problems, they may be less likely to be acceptant of his ASD characteristics. No sense.

Outrageous! No other word for it. Can't believe anyone in their right mind would suggest that! My ds is very likely to be AS/HFA but we cannot get ASD dx yet. Have been given a dx of 'behavioural difficulties' but have just got statement for ms school NOT any behavioural unit. Also behaviour management for ASD children is significantly different from techniques for NT children so how would that help him?.

Point out to them that what they are suggesting is contrary to the Dept of Ed's Guidance to LAs that

"children with long-term special needs should not be educated in a PRU (aka Behavioural Unit).

That is an indisputable mandate from the Dept of Ed and I am outraged that your Ed Pysch even suggested the idea.

Frankly, tell them to stuff it.

See this link www.teachingexpertise.com/articles/what-makes-a-pru-successful-2738

It states:

In four PRUs some statements of educational special need named it as the school to provide the support; this does not fully comply with the Department for Children, Schools and Families (DCSF) guidance that where a pupil?s special needs are long-term the pupil should be given a special school rather than a PRU placement.

Thank you all so much, I felt very alone I have to say after she said it. Ds's Dad is going to call her tommorrow and ask her to clarify her thoughts on it.

At the end she did say "I just felt I had to put all the ideas on the table". I just looked at her and felt really quite helpless in that I just don't think that this is something that should even have come to mind. For this to be suggested says to me that she sees him as having behavioural issues first and foremost and really makes me wonder if she actually believes he is autistic. He is very High Functioning and many of our family members struggle with believing it as he comes across as so very articulate and reasonable when all going smoothly, I can actually see that if you didn't know him very well and didn't know a great deal about ASD he could appear perfectly fine most of the time. I have reiterated this over and over again, "yes he is extremely high functioning but the difficulties and sensory issues that he does have are significant. Ed Psych also does "not believe in Home Edding". I am getting to the point though where I am thinking this is the only thing that will work.

Ds's Dad just said quite calmly that he could not agree to that as we can never know what tips ds over the edge and therefore his ASD traits can not be labelled behavioural issues as a lot of the time he just can't help it. Later he said to me that he really didn't take it on board as the meeting had been going on for two hours and he needed to get to work!

I just feel so bloody hopeless though, after three years of stress in Mainstream, that is what she f*cking comes up with .

Are there other options? eg anything specific for HFA? Any private ASD schools? Or what about ABA support in mainstream - being a behavioural approach this should be up the EP's street.,. We are (assuming we hang onto the statement) putting DS into mainstream with ABA support - and know it would not work without that ABA support. But they keep him behaviourally under a really tight regime - very clear boundaries etc. And they are able to deal with any problem that comes up immediately - so DS is 4 and this week its all about refusing to wear a coat - so we are using a token system and building tolerance to wearing his coat and practising it several times a day. next week he may well have decided to have an objection to something entirely new and they will start a new programme for that.

I think it does depend on the placement. I know a child who was not dx'd until he was 10 who had a breakdown was out of school for a year and then went to a EBD school out in the countryside and his Mum said it was wonderful - the staff were so understanding and after years of her being labelled a bad parent at school meetings and being hit by her child at home and no-one agreeing with her that he needed medical assessment she just said it was a huge relief and he thrived there. But he was 11 when he went - and she did say he swore like a trooper (picked up from the other kids). I would agree that many of the children had undertones of ASD who were there. But it was a very different set up than a pupil referral unit type place.

But that said if mainstream isn't working and you don't want the behaviour placement - look at ABA and them working with him at school / at home. You can take the behaviour / ASD expertise and put it in mainstream - you don't have to move the child. You can bring the specialist teacher into mainstream school.

I would suspect if very HF the amount of ABA needed may not actually be more expensive than a EBD placement especially if transport on top. ABA staff will be able to train the mainstream teachers how to implement behavioural (and other eg social) programmes. this is who we work with. They work in a lot of mainstream schools and might have an office near you. They are very pro mainstream for HFA but with the right support.

Speak to some ABA practitioners yourself and they should be able to put you in touch with some parents who have ABA in school and see if that might be an alternative. Because the LA seem to be saying mainstream on its own is not enough so ABA might be the solution. We only just won ABA from our LA and they have only been going into nursery with DS for a short time but its wonderful - he is doing really well - and the staff are happy with it and it makes their life so much easier as the ABA staff know exactly how to get the best out of DS and also how to deal with his tantrums etc. Eventually the idea is to slowly fade out ABA and transfer over to mainstream staff - so in your case it might be alot of ABA support initially but then once they have programmes in place and have trained the mainstream staff they might be able to fade back.

So you could go back and say I have another idea to put on the table!