back into nappies school request

[goingroundthebend4]

ds 5.5 GDD, low muscle tone ,EDS , verbal oral dyspraxi , has been out of nappies in the day since was 4.2 though would often have accidents 3-4 a week and does not always say when wet or soiled so has to be reminded to go Does struggle to hold if out and about .

He is in nappies/pull up at nighs as is nowhere near ready often soils in night or asleep and i only know by smell when check on him and his nappies are sodden in morning

~Since started school Septembe rhe has been having 4-5 accidents a week sometimes 2 or 3 in a day .Today he has come home in a pull up and a request that i send in a pack as he indicated he wears at home obviously there not aware he means at night but school saying there struggling to deal with his accidents had 4 today before lunch though i know he has gone back a bit as was ill last week and always knjocks back

So wwyd send him in pull ups as requested or insist that he stays in pants and there just going have to tell him to go and make sure he does .

He does have staement but he is in speech unit and they dont get any extra hrs to take account of his other issues let alone the accidents and do understand that it is taking lot of extra time for changing him and that there already doing Ot etc without more hrs for staff but kinda loath to put back in nappies

I think putting him back in nappies will be a massive step back and will undo all the hard work you have put in getting him this far. I think they need to know that you see him being toilet trained as part of his education and that you have put a lot of work into getting him this far. He may need to be taken to the loo every half an hour or so to cut down on the number of accidents and get him back on the right track. I don't thinks it's an unreasonable request as mastering this skill will be a really important milestone for your ds.

yeah was working on it but unit saying not enough time as they dont get no extra above the speech placement for his needs Think going need to call have chat tomorrow ,

I acknowledge ds does not care if wet and does seem that he does not feel the urge to go but at home i make time to take him sigh 2 forward one back he has annual review next month and suspect there going say not right placement for ds not less they get addtional funding to take care of his needs

agree with cansu. do you have any continence service input?

no we saw them once back when ds was 4.2 but as was working on it they signed us of as they though soem is down to Pd and would be resolved with better seating etc

We have moved and one point talked about it but at time everyone was see how he goes but think will talk to paed and see if we can get referal

At home he is so much better or even when were out guess if comes from paed etc school will have to find the time to take him

I too think it would be a huge step backwards to go back to day time pull ups, I think I would probably send a letter in saying they're only worn at night, what a set back it would be after all the hard work put in by you and previously continence service, etc. How much time does it take to say to him, do you need the toilet? Just as a reminder

never does any harm to have a medical letter as back up does it? up here the continence service was happy just with school nurse referral for DS (chronic constipation) so might not have to be a paed job on the referral.

Ds does not see the school nurse as he already has so many proffesionals involved felt she could not add anything by seeing ds but sending
note in home school book and will follow up with phone call ,we could not get free nappies/pull ups as wax told since I put him in pants was classed as toilet trained yet now I'm suddenly meant to

don't think it's the reminding more so the time to change him when have accidents as is unable to undress self mind pull up they put him in had smeees of pooh in as wad on his bum to so no one helped him wipe to :(

Bigcar IRS the fact that someone needs to go with him to help with getting trousers down and up plus wiping that takes the time the other dc on unit just have speech problems ds is a first for them coping with pd and having to do ot and physio daily

Why is it going to be easier for them when he is back in nappies as they are still ging to have to change him when he wets or soils his nappy - Unless of course they paln to leave him in a soiled nappy? which obviously they wouldn't do
So surely they would be better off putting in place a consistent toileting approach to help improve the accidents & therefor reduce the time spent changing him, beit a nappy or pants.

kids with continence issues are often prefered to be in an easy to clean up pad rather then underwear, as its acknoledged that he will have issues and the time to clean him up in cloths and underwear is far greater then to change a nappy

additionally the hygine concerns may be a factor as is the time taken to remind and assist a child repeatedly throughout the day is far more then a nappy change would take.

while it is a backstep in development it does allow more time devoted to learning rather then trips to the loo or nurses office

swings and round abouts , maybe worth asking the child what they would prefer.

and a meeting withb the school could help

a very big part of the learning in the first couple of years can be about improving his self help skills & developing indipendance.
An easy to clean up pad does little to help that, we tried pull ups as he could play a part, with adult support to take them up & down etc.
The only problem was they impaired his sense of wanting to go & he couldn't feel when he was wet etc.
The only way to crack it was with hard work & patience both at home & school.
Eventually another IEP target ticked off, short term hardship for long term gain perhaps.

But agree, is he able to tell you which he would prefer?

no ds cant say which he prferes either one way he would not indicate if soiled be it pants or pads even when direct;ey asked you often ,now by the smell.At home he is slowly getting there sometime he done small bit in his pants then i catch a whiff and get him to the toilet and he does rest there .

Annon ds does not seem to indicate that he has wet his pants often only when you notice a wet patch do you know he could happily sit in them especially if busy ordistracted, think he would happily wear nappies he does not seem to care what others think but he has been doing so well with toilet training evne though does not get the normal urges

zzzz
he does have full statment hence the speech unit but trouble is that its one level of funding for each dc in the unit and there now muttering about fact his needs are way above anyone elses there a nd in that i can agree his needs are way more but thats why i fought the Lea to get ot and physio in his staement not my problem they dont normally get in statements there

Shall report back later today it is only downside when his school so far away cant drop in and talk to his teacher and only so much can put in home school book

It is difficult,but as the others have said you have put in a lot of hard work-if you put him back in nappies now,when are you going to take him out of them again-1 year;2 years-the school wherever he is will still have the same problem to deal with-you'll have to start all over again-unsure as to whether your ds is in a unit as part of a mainstream school or in a SN school- I think if it's MS they will complain more about this issue.Good luck

ds is in a speech unit attached to ms school though he spends 100% of the time in the unit But think its where there struggling they never had achild like ds3 in the unit with other problems on top of speech

I dont want him back in nappies and will not have him in them at home in the day would rather the school just have to suck it up and get on with it .At home he is better becuase i take him dont just ask him if ask he says no as does not have the feelings

Thin going to bring his paed inTo the loop and fingers crossed she will agree with me

it does say in his staement that he will need help with his personal care and toileting ty i forgot that.

thin its down to money and time as there having to do so much more for ds than do for other students but it was their in his statement going to be intresting at his annual review next month .

My NT DS also has these issues. When the paediatrician changed his meds, he was soiling 6-7 times a day. The school has never insisted he go back into pull-ups - which he also wears at night.
If your DS has constipation related soiling (i think that i read constipation?) then his toiling issues are a medical need - rather than a social need - which we all know is an incredibly hit and miss affair. A medical need will have a structure. My DS has been added to 'the toilet routine'. There are a group of children, some SN, some SEN, some NT, that are taken to the toilet at regular intervals throughout the day. It gives the child the opportunity to try - regardless of whether they do anything. This limits the number of accidents.
This did take 2 or so days of phoning/hassle on the first days of september term to organise, but it is done willingly. The SENco advised the staff that DS was a medical need so permissions etc were bi-passed.
The staff may be trying in their minds to be helpful but long term they are not. Medical professionals will tell you that the feeling of soiled fabric next to the skin is very different from a pull-up. There is less likelihood of noticing/feeling/recognising soiling in a pull-up.
MS schools can easily put a good toileting routine in place - minimising accidents. Do not accept any less.

My DS1 is at about the same stage in toilet training as your DS. He has mild ASD and mild hypermobility. If his school told me to put him back in nappies I would be furious. They are fine with this but they won't change him if he is wet because he doesn't tell them.

well not got anywhere fast but lucki;y have a meeting where the paed and school teacher will be there on Friday so can tackle it head on when both in same room.So there be none of this one person say one thing then say anothers to me .Will nail both of them down
they said they have no faclites for washing him after haveing an accident so can t get him properley clean .But then how the feck they going to clean him if he soils a nappy arghh

elliejjtiny ds is teh same he does not seem to recognise when he needs to go and does not care or say when he is wet

I can see how sometimes teachers do not notice being wet - particularly if they are wearing dark coloured trousers, skirts and sitting on the floor etc - but soiling is another matter. Unless all staff involved have no sense of smell - how can it go unnoticed for long?
What facilities do their medical room have? how much 'washing' is needed. Surely it will have a sink - hand towels etc. I send in wet wipes, nappy sacks and plastic bags so that dirty clothes can get double bagged. There is also a spare set of clothes and multiple pants there as well.
If they put in place a regular toileting routine and check regularly, any accidents will be relatively contained and would not require major facilities for showering him. He would just need somewhere to be taken that is private with basic facilities. I think they are putting obstacles in the way that should not be there. What is their real problem?

think their real problem is having to do extra for ds full stop

now there was a comment made when i looked around school about not having time to do Ot program but of course its in his statement so they have to make time for it ,thin its becuas ethere having to differiante his program so much eg English o readings./talking etc being speehc unit can deal with but ds cant hold pen properley etc so maybe issue

theres 8 dc 1 full time teacher and one full time Lsa plus speech therpaist 2 full days and 2 half days so not like lots of dc to sniff out

yes i do same bags, spare clothes , wipes etc but sinc ethere saying one thing shall pull it up in front of his paed/school/ot/physio etc when we have caf meeting put them all on the spot

Agree with everything zzzz has said. It is not up to them to tell you to put ds back into nappies. That is your decision in your upbringing of your child. If they do not have time, they need to reorganise their staffing and/or funding, or apply for more funding to enable adequate time to be spent with ds on this.

Their line about this hindering his development in school because it's devoting time away from lessons is bull. This is a short-term problem but once he has mastered it, this is a skill which he will have learnt for the rest of his life.

And the thing about them not having facilities to deal with this So what do they do with other children who wet/soil themselves? I find it impossible to believe your ds is the only 5yo who this happens to

I couldn't agree more with zzzz on this: "personally I am getting sick to the teeth people behaving like they are doing me a favour having my beautiful boy in school." Abso-bloody-lutely.

Stand your ground over this.

They sound like a lazy bunch - where everything is just sooooo difficult to organise. it isn't. other schools do it. they can do it with or without statement, 1-1, extra funding etc. They can do it because it is in the best interests of your child and their well being. Stepford children rarely exist. Most children at some stage of their school life will need extra help. Could be giving extra work to a gifted child - is that also too much? some teachers need to look at why they became teachers in the first place.