Job-share teachers reporting the polar opposite about ds

[moosemama]

Ds1's teachers are on a job share. He has one Monday through Wednesday and the other Thursday and Friday (although strangely he seems to have the first teacher on a Thursday sometimes as well).

Since half-term the first teacher has taken both myself and dh aside and told us that ds is being disobedient and defiant and generally being very difficult and not listening and concentrating at all. We were surprised to hear this, as all his teachers historically have said that he can be a bit opinionated, but he has never been defiant or disobedient at school before.

At the beginning of the year, she said she felt he wasn't hearing her when she asked him to do something. Yesterday she said he is definitely hearing her but choosing to ignore.

Her example was that she needed to speak to everyone at the end of the school day and asked the class to sit down so,

Teacher: "class, sit on your bottoms please" ds didn't sit down and was facing the wrong way so ...

Teacher again" "ds1, what did I just ask you to do?"

Ds: "sit down on our bottoms"

Teacher: "yes, so why aren't you doing it"

Ds: "I am doing it, I'm doing it now"

Ds sits on his bottom.

She reported this as obvious disregard for her request, followed by being extremely rude.

I have a feeling she isn't giving him time to process requests, particularly whole class requests, before telling him off for not complying. He has a tendency, when asked something, to roll his eyes and repeat exactly what you just said very slowly before acting on it. He has however, learned not to do this out loud around other people, so is most likely processing the instruction slowly in his head. Obviously he can then repeat it, but hasn't taken it in, so it appears that he is being deliberately disobedient. The problem here is that I get the feeling that she will just think we are giving him excuses for his bad behaviour. She has told me she knows very little about ASD (she read a leaflet the SENCO gave her) and struggles to know how to handle ds.

His other teacher has a child who was assessed as 'borderline ASD' herself. In ds's diary for the same two week period, she has written that ds seemed focused, cooperative and happy and that she was really pleased to note that he had been sociable, communicative, cooperative and happy.

They sound like they are talking about two different children (although the second one sounds more like the ds1 I know and love).

So how do I deal with this? Obviously the first teacher is struggling with him. She has said before that she cannot "allow him to be rude to her" as "the other children will copy him" and "it can't be one rule for him and another for all the other children". So I think she thinks his behaviour is undermining her authority. She is autocratic in style and quite strict, but he seemed to be getting on ok in her class until the half term break.

Its parent's evening tonight and his IEP review next week and I need somehow to get across to her that he really isn't being defiant or disobedient, he just needs handling in a different way. You'd think the teachers would have discussed this amongst themselves, especially as one seems to be able to get the best out of him and the other definitely can't. But apparently not.

I have downloaded a few documents from the NAS site and highlighted what I feel are the relevant points, but I feel like I will meet with resistance if I give these to her to read as she is always telling me that ds is "only one of 27 children" and she barely has time to fill in his feelings diary with him as it is.

She should be saying his name before she makes a request so that he knows she is talking to him. Her example was rubbish because he obviously was doing what she had asked because he said he was, If he wasn't going to comply he would have said "no"!!

She does need more training but I think you are right about her being resistant. She will think you are trying to tell her how to do her job. Can you talk to the senco and see if she will help?

She needs to undersand that she should be speaking to him in a different way, she should make her requests clear and concise, always address him before speaking to him and don't give him the opportunity to answer a request as if it was a question. He probably caan't tell the difference between the two so she needs to make it obvious.

Good luck .

Unfortunately we don't have a SENCO at the moment - the Head is acting SENCO and well, lets just say we are not his favourite people at the moment.

We have talked about her saying his name before asking him to do something and the inclusion team have also given her the same advice. She told me she does do this, but obviously when its an instruction for the whole class, she doesn't use his name specifically, so he doesn't necessarily think she means him.

She is definitely in the 'don't tell me how to do my job camp' methinks. I quite like her though, at first she was just what the class needed after a really bad year last year. She was consistent and firm and a lot of the children who were acting up last year have really seemed to settle down, including the bully that ds had problems with last year. So it a bit of a double edged sord really.

I also think that now the class as a whole has settled down, ds's behaviour stands out even more in the classroom.

I'm at a loss to know how to sort this out though and its going to be a looong year if we can't. I can see her losing him already and can just see him being at rock bottom by the end of the year again if something doesn't change.

Our lovely Ed Psych is going in tomorrow to observe him and meet the Mon-Wed teacher. I spoke to her last week to tell her what the teacher had said about him being defiant etc and am praying she can suggest a way forwards, but I'm not really sure what she can/could do really.

Ds had a difficult relationship with one teacher last year - so this (the teachers perception) needs nipping in bud before ds gets too discouraged and fufills her expectation. Perhaps it would help to write a list (maybe the other or previous teachers or Salt provider could help)of what each teacher needs to know to support your son. For instance perhaps it takes longer for him to process requests (he may have needed to see what the others were doing) (my son even at 11 would struggle with a request to sit on his bottom if unused to that phrase- how do you do that!!) I know my son (also autistic)can seem rude because he phrases things literally, and uses the wrong tone of voice - and needs to be coached in what to say. However I know from experience that once a child is marked as challenging by a particular teacher the relationship can deteriorate rapidly!

Thanks magso. Actually you have just reminded me that the Ed Psych felt a 'passport' might be a good idea for ds. (General info about him, likes, dislikes, strengths, areas he struggles with etc.) Perhaps if I did it as a general document and told her the Ed Psych suggested it as a way to help 'all the staff' understand ds and how best to interact with him she might not take it so personally.

I downloaded a proforma someone linked to earlier in the year. Will go and revisit it now.

Sorry cross posted. It is good the EP is going in - I am sure it will be easier for a supportive professional- it is part of there role. At parent night you could try saying what is working well for your son in his new class as you have above(the structure/ control of bullying etc - complementing her teaching style) but then explain the difficulties your ds has ie with understanding instructions and tone of voice. Would it help to explain the 6 second rule?

Cross posted again! A passport was what I was thinking too!

Great minds think alike!

Thinking about it, I'm not sure we can discuss it this evening. My fault, as I said I didn't want to discuss ds's SEN in the hall at parent's evening with another parent sat elbow to elbow with me, as there was a fair amount of eavesdropping going on last year and we have the IEP review meeting next week anyway. (Inclusion isn't exactly welcomed by some of the parents at ds's school. )

That said, I'm not actually sure what we are going to discuss if we avoid the subject.

I did think I might use the time to do what you suggest and tell her all the positives for ds so far this year. I am always telling both teachers that I appreciate all their hard work and I do understand how hard it is with a whole class to manage, I struggle enough with just three. Hopefully then she might come to the review meeting in a more positive frame of mind.

Agree highlighting the positives will be good. Also let her vent about what she finds difficult... and be seen to be actively listening. Promise to give some serious thought to how you can help ds and her to overcome these issues. Stress how much he likes school and her, and that he is keen to learn to behave 'well'.

Door is then open for you to write his iep targets next week and have her implement it!

Well, she came out after school and told me that she was cancelling our parents evening appointment on the advice of the Head, as he feels there is no need for us to speak to her twice in a fortnight. Thing is, it shouldn't actually be twice in a fortnight, as his IEP review was due at the beginning of October. Unfortunately the IEP meetings are scheduled in half hour slots and I know that isn't going to be anywhere near enough to get through everything we need to discuss.

I am always, really careful what I say, emphasise how grateful we are for everything she does and how we understand how hard it is for her etc, but am increasingly starting to feel like we have big flashing neon signs above our heads that say words to the effect of 'PITA family avoid at all costs' or something similar.

I wouldn't mind so much if I was rude or pushy or even just very direct, but its quite the contrary, as I'm not good at face to face conflict. I write a mean letter though and have had to do so a couple of times already this year to get ds the outside support that he needs. I have yet to be told by any of the other professionals that I'm wrong or have acted inappropriately. In fact, I've had the opposite feedback, they have all been appalled at how little the school has done for him and at not being called in sooner etc.

I overheard another Mum in the playground this afternoon saying that her son has suspected dyslexia and the school is giving her the run around about that as well. On the one hand, at least I know its not just us, on the other, it backs up my theory that the new Head is anti-inclusion, or at the very least anti paying for inclusion.

It makes me so angry (and sad) that at the root of all this are the very real needs of a child, but that they seem completely out of touch with that. To them its all about allocations and funding and the fact that they are actually dealing with a living breathing child gets lost in the mix.