How would you define High Functioning ASD/Low Functioning ASD?

[ghoulsforgodot]

Just curious really.
Are there certain criteria?

No. I think you call your ds HFA or LFA depending on what services you need to access if I'm honest.

I suppose LFA is closer to the inability to participate or at least give the illusion of coping in normal activities. Has the ability to learn some social rules even if they never become instinctive, whereas LFA never develops those skills.

However, I think there is some scope to move around depending on the intervention, although I wouldn't be stupid enough to suggest that you can always turn a LFA into HFA with a bit of therapy.

DS was assessed as having moderate to severe autism with 'some' high fuctioning skills. This is bollox to me. DS is DS and I have a lot of optimism about his potential and will never let anyone deter me from this.

One thing that is for certain is that children who have high expectations for both their children and their provision are likely to see better results, even if they never quite have their expectations met. There is plenty of research out there that backs this.

Sorry, didn't quite answer your question, but I 'personally' don't believe in HFA/LFA. It's an abritary label used to set expectations. If it is useful to you then it's fine, but I think as parents as our knowledge grows we get a 'feel' for where our children are and it is likely that it can depend on the context anyhow.

HFA perhaps equates to Aspergers Syndrome?

Hi Stark. Am really sorry to hear that DS is autistic. My nephew, who is 10 now, is profoundly autistic and my sister has had her heart broken many times in the last decade. She has turned into a bit of a street fighter to secure the provisions he needs and often these provisions fall somewhere in between health and education.

Most autistics, I think about 75pc, have below average IQ. An autistic who is described as high functioning has average or above average IQ. There is a small number who have special talent, I think they are called islets, and this is what the film Rainman was about. This talent if often mathematical, music or art.

It's difficult to define. Some children/adult with HFA can be severely affected in one area and not on the others, and vice versa.

The way i understand things HFA have some degree of functional speech and language, and have no learning disability. Although in a lot of cases the autism causes various learning difficulties.
LFA have lesser access to fonctional verbal communication or can be non-verbal, with less abilities to interact in the 'normal' way or cope in the social environment.

The spectrum is complex to say the least!! and one size do not fit all

Josie I don't often post when something upsets me but I do find your use of the term 'autistics' not nice at all, my ds is a child with autism not an autistic.

HF/Aspergers - A friend said that in the previous county she lived in, because her child was not verbal at 3,although spoke a 4, and now speaks and read very well, would be HF, not Aspergers. However, in her new county, he is registered as having Aspergers.

Someone else told me that to be HF, the child must not be too far behind in school - not need too much help. Don't know if I agree with that.

I think it is to do with skills. I know someone who writes very well, speaks reasonably etc and would describe herself as HF in these areas and yet she has no life skills - can't catch a bus, fix herself a meal, go to shops, etc - and she describes herself as low-functioning in these areas.

So sorry ghouls, no real idea and haven't really answered your question but think the spectrum is so wide and covers so much that that one label doesn't really fit comfortably.

I was just curious to find out what the terms actually mean. So going back to what you said earlier Star, they are basically terms used to ensure the provision you are getting is fit for purpose.
I LOVE the fact you mentioned expectations.
The reason I have posted today is because we are soon due to meet with the Ed Psych who wants to discuss DS's capabilities.
I already feel she has no clue about DS and has only once observed him. Due to his speech delay, I reckon she will tell me he is low functioning. I however do have optimism and I am actually terrified that this optimism will be crushed during the next few meetings we have.

No gouls it won't.

The Autism Advisory Teacher told me (before we really went into battle) that my expectations were too high. I asked her quite bluntly of what? his abilities or their provision.

She choked on her biscuit and said 'both'.

When I informed her that I believed ds to be at a high risk of underachieving she replied simply 'yes, but that isn't because of us, it is a country-wide issue'.

The correct response should have been 'you're quite right, but we won't let that happen to ds, we will work hard with you and those involved in his education to do all we can to prevent it'.

What I heard on that day was enough to know that the culture within the LA was one of battering parents into reducing their expectations of their children, in order to reduce their expectations of their services.

As you may know, my ds has been learning at a rate FASTER than his peers ever since I reduced my expectations of their provision BUT DID NOT reduce my expectations of my ds.

This is purely my experience from 5 years working with children with ASD.

I have no medical or scientific qualifications. I am posting purely from knowing and forming positive relationships with the people I have met. I have seen no studies or evidence to back up this opinion, but here it is in case it helps someone!

People with Asperger's Syndrome know that they function differently from others, but don't always understand why.

People with Autism know that there is something wrong with the world because it doesn't conform to their idea of it.

Low-functioning pretty much equals ability to interact with the world in a positive way. Like getting dressed ("I'm more comfortable naked, why do I need clothes") or using a toilet ("I need to go, and I'm in these uncomfortable, restricting clothes that I don't know how to get out of")

I don't want to troll, and as I have stated my opinion is purely based on my own experiences. I would be interested to know if anyone else has experienced the same, though :)

Thanks all.
Star-what you say makes total sense and means the LA can play the "you are a parent in denial" card if you prsent any sort of optimism for their future. If a child is classed as low functioning though, would they not (in theory) have to provide more input and resources?
How bloody depressing.

Purplepidjin-thats interesting. So you reckon its an inability to conform really esp with functional living?

Leonie-very true. "Able autism" eh? Thats a new one

what does that mean?

Star - I love you post re expectations and all.

Ds was diagnosed as having low IQ cos couldn't build a tower more than 3 bricks high - psych did not take into fact that he loved knocking them over. Also did not ask us if he could build a higher tower.

Last SALT report said - ds said he likes swings when he does not so still cannot answer/understand questions with correctly all the time. (ds does not like going on them) However, ds DOES like looking and watching people swinging or even just the swing moving and so DID give the correct answer.

ghouls - you know your ds best and like Star said, don't let them set limits on your expectation.

I think the low/high thing is not really that helpful - it's not a digital switch from high to low. I really don't know about ds - He does not seem to have much in common with high functioning children (i've read about) , on the other hand not much in common with low functioning children (ditto read about). So I suppose he is in the 'middle' along with many other children. But I think it is a well populated middle, I did read a book by one of the professors in the US who helped to devise the DSM iV criteria. The book was published about 20 years ago and his idea of 'high functioning' autism was lower than what ds can do. So 'fashion' if we can call that is a factor too.

I have a friend who's been told that her son has "severe" autism and yet he's toilet trained (in the day at least) and working at level 3 on the P-scales and he's still only four! I take everything the professionals say with a large spoon of salt (oh my BP!) and like Stark said, I don't let it affect my expectations/

Professionals will probably tell you that the child is 'low' unless the child has no significant learning or language difficulties (well maybe some semantic ones iykwim). They won't want to raise expectations by saying anything else.

'If a child is classed as low functioning though, would they not (in theory) have to provide more input and resources'

Possibly. That's why I say go with whatever 'label' gets you the provision. You'll know in your heart and through your research what the real situation is.

But always remember, it isn't about provision, it is about outcomes. You can 2:1 TA support and 10 hours a week in a sensory room but for what? Expensive, lovely, but what is your child learning?

My favourite saying at the moment is 'outcomes not hours'. I couldn't care less if my ds' TA was working with another child when she should be working with ds PROVIDED he was acheiving.

And you're right. I get pittying looks when I suggest ds can learn faster than he is. I was told a couple of weeks ago by the Autism Advisory Teacher (the one that I got to replace the first stupid one) that 'his autism isn't going to go away you know' (quite possibly even stupider).

The H/L thing is only as relevant as it is relevant to YOUR DD/DS accessing help. There are very LF adults out there writing books, giving talks etc, but can't dress themselves and aren't able to use the toilet independently.

I think THE MOST IMPORTANT thing to realise is that if YOU don't believe in your child, your child is fucked. Sorry, that's quite harsh but who else will? What a burden eh?

keepyourmouth I know. Most IQ tests are rubbish for children with autism and are at best a snap shot.

I don't have an issue with them though. I think they are a good baseline and ideally, whether correct or not, you would want to work towards improving the result the next time the test is taken. I don't believe IQ measurements are set in stone for one minute. There is no such thing as am IQ test independent of language, culture, motivation etc.

There's no national/ international definition.

My son is technically severe autism, as in ADOS scores and any other numerical, checklist approach. It's true that he needs 24/7 supervision and an awful lot of support to live successfully, safely and happily.

But he's extremely verbal, of average-above average intelligence, sociable (if oddly ) and definitely doesn't have classic/ low-functioning autism. He is in mainstream school, is toilet-trained, accesses some mainstream activities. His 'prognosis', according to his psych, is quite positive. He could probably go to uni and/ or work as an adult.

My friend has a son with classic autism, who is nonverbal and in nappies. The boys may have similarities but their autism is not the same thing.

The speech thing is a red herring too. My son didn't really have a proper speech delay but was considered too severe behaviourally and self-care wise to be dx'd with Aspergers.

Purple I don't think anyone would take issue with how you have analysed your experiences.

I personally hate the hf/lf thing anyway. My child isn't a robot. BUT I suppose if you look at it like computer programming language, a child with 'LFA' is closer to and more driven by their biological rather than social needs, wheras a child with 'HFA' has more social needs and are able to participate to some extent in our social world and control their biological drives.

i.e. LFA more likely to eat/poo/materbate etc in public, but a HFA much more likely to understand why this is unacceptable.

My son has a diagnosis of HFA and has been discribed by professionals a....high functioning but very disabled by his autism.

Dd1 has Aspergers, Dd2 has ASD dx but suspect HFA. I think HFA is the same as Aspergers but with speech delay (dd1 is very verbal, dd2 is not). My dd's are totally different than each other and they both have different problems.

Someone told me (someone with ASD) that people with AS want to have friends but struggle to make them, people with ASD dont care if they have friends or not (not sure if that is correct but it applies to my dd's).

Dd2 may have HFA but because of her severe language delay there are times where i would class her ASD as being severe.