I've shouted so much this weekend at my DD. I feel awful

[MissNutty]

Actually, the whole week on and off!

My DD had a terrible asthma attack a week ago and was on steroids temporarily. Since then it's like she's gone back at least 6 months with her behaviour and language.

Although inclustion support have dismissed her as having a "major" problem, pre school have still got there concerns she may be on the Autistic Spectrum. Her behaviour, social and language skills before the attack were coming on so much that I started to wonder whether she had anything wrong with her atall other than a delay. This last week though has been an absolute NIGHTMARE!!

I've been hit, kicked, bitten and the new one....spat on!! She hardly answers me and has gone back into this little world of hers again where I can't get her to stop twirling round and round.

I have shouted so much and I know it's wrong, so why am I doing it? Everytime I lose my temper like that I tell myself not to do that again, but when she switches it's like she has this monster inside of her and she likes hurting me. I find it so hard to remain calm when she's doing this to me. I don't smack and don't plan to, that's not to say though I haven't been tempted.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep my cool and possibly improve or avoid these hideous temper tantrums of hers. She's nearly 4.

I have to say I am absolutely dreading her going to pre school tomorrow. She's been off a fair while now and I can't stand to think her behaviour will be the same there. My nerves are absolutely shot.

Any advice much appreciated. Thanks.

Steroids are awful, sorry.

I would say ride it out, and let her go to preschool - be grateful if she is the same there, because it means it is something that they can observe.

When Dd1 was on steroids she was really hard to handle, totally out of control sometimes.

Try not to worry too much about preschool, she might be glad to be back after a break and they are often different away from home.
Good luck you sound like you need a break.[hsmile].

Hi Lougle,

They have observed her behaviour when it's really bad before, ie having to restrain her and she even hit one of the preschool workers once. I'm definitely taking her tomorrow, but i just know all i'll do all morning is think about it and wonder what it is she's doing, even when i'm trying really hard to distract myself. I often will arrive to pick her up shaking. I know that makes me sound really weak and I get really angry with myself, but I can't seem to control it.

When you say "steroids are awful", what exactly do you mean? Have you had experience with this?

Thanks for you reply.

your reply even

yeahhh the twirling round and round sounds very autistic and it's probably stress that's making her want to do this.

You could avoid the tantrums by not putting too much pressure on her to be 'normal'. She's probably regressed because of stress - remove the stress and you might (maybe ) see an improvement in her general behavior.

Ineed2, thanks, I feel like I really do need a break, but then I suppose everyone who comes on here needs one.

I really hope you're right about the steroids. She only took them once but the affects were immediate so it's too much of a coincidence I think. However we are a week and a half down the line so it surely would be out of her system by now.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow. My stomach is in knots.

prednisilone makes my children agressive and moody, both of them. Ds1 has asd (autistic spectrum disorder) and asthma and his behavior deteriorates rapidly - partly because it's frightening not being able to breathe, partly because it's tiring not being able to breathe, and partly because of the disruption in his routine.

Sorry, MissNutty, I know how that feels - my DD1 now goes to special school, but I dreaded picking her up every day.

Yes, steroids - I am a nurse (or was) and steroids could turn a little old lady into superwoman. Seriously nasty stuff.

The trouble is , that it seems to take a lot less time to regress than it does to make progress, It's like that saying 1 step forwards 2 steps back.
At least you know she can improve, try to focus on the positive things she is doing no matter how tiny they are. Force yourself to comment on tiny steps like " thankyou for eating your tea" or "You did really well getting your shoes on" even if you have had to ask 25 times, make sure you praise when things get done.

Tell them at preschool how worried you are when you go to pick her up. If they are any good at their jobs they won't tell you every tiny little thing she has done and they should always try to find someting positive to say.

Good luck for tomorrow and enjoy a couple of hours peace[hgrin].

Thanks. We've had a good few hours tonight. She sat down ate her special Halloween tea(special as in, with a pumpkin in the middle of the table) and seems to have calmed down quite a lot.

I'm really glad I posted this about the steroids though. Didn't realise these sort of side effects were so common.

Lougle, would you suggest a preventative? I only ask because she's having her salbutamol reguarly and i'm terrified it wont work again. From a less concerned point of view, I also don't want her personality to switch so rapidly and for so long. It's like I have a different child.

Ineed2, the manager will usually keep the negatives rather brief(unless it's been really bad), but her keyworker is awful to be honest. Unless she hasn't put a foot wrong i'm told every little detail. Literally listed on with each finger and then just stands there as if to say "off you go, and for goodness sake take her with you!!" So yes, there is definitely a problem with her key worker, which I sensed from day one if i'm being honest.

I just wish I could be stronger and accept who she is, but because things of SO up and down, you can't accept anything yet because you don't know. Not for sure anyway. I know she has something and I AM sure about that, it's just what. I seem to be crying all the time as I almost feel as if i'm gradually losing her. I fear she wont have a "normal" life. I know that's not a very pc thing to say, but I feel so sad for her. I think things like, will I ever see her as Mary in the Christmas play? Will I see her atall in the Christmas play?

Sorry to have gone on so much, but I obviously needed to get it out.

Hi, am sure there are much more qualified people than me that will come along, but just wanted to say my asthma now really well controlled by a puff of Infacort am and pm, hardly ever need blue inhaler now and proper steroid tabs once in a blue moon, It's been brill. I think someone said because it is inhaled it mucks up the system less, just a thought??

PS reading your bit about 'will he/she ever....' I remember that feeling so well. (Ds has ASD Mod LD and severe lang delay), just wanted to say two things, first be kind to self, it is ok to feel sad and to be upset, and second ds constantly surprises me about what he can do, he is not the same as other kids, but he has his sucesses and achievements and over time I think you get to rejoice in those..

Take care of self anyway

signandsay, thanks very much. That was really nicely put. DD definitely has her moments where I think "you really are perfect just the way you are", of course that feeling will subside though when i'm wacked over the head etc.

Can I ask what Mod LD is? How old is your DS now? Does he have friends? My DD finds it really hard to make friends. She's very friendly but overly so, so she puts the children off or even frightens them because she's so full on. She's nearly 4 and we still haven't had a friend over for tea yet. Apart from family ie cousins etc. That hurts me so much. The other day she was playing with her walking, talking Elmo and said, "Elmo, you'll be my friend wont you". I had to go in the next room to pull myself together.

Thanks for the advice about the Infacort. I shall definitely name drop that when I take her to the Docs next week. Thanks again. :)

Dd1's asthma was very well controlled when she was eventually given flixotide Its a few years ago now but it was the best one she had.
Your Dd might need a preventer to take everydy rather than just a blue inhaler [a reliever].

You need to speak to the manager about the key worker situation, she can tell the keyworker not to overload you with negatives or she could change the keyworker.
We had a situation like this where I work and a quiet word in the key workers ear was all the manager had to do.

Don't be afraid to speak up especially when you are feeling so low.
Glad you had a nice tea[hsmile].

For what it's worth, my DD was given prednisolone when she was younger a few times when she was having some asthma problems and illness (it was for the breathing issues, she isn't ASD). The last time she had it, she was about 10. You could literally watch her escalate after a few days in aggressive behaviour, which was completely unlike her. We took her back to the GP and demanded (and got) different meds. I've never given it to her since. She said afterwards that she felt like she was trapped in her head and could see what she was doing but couldn't stop it. She was saying dreadful things as well about "I don't have any friends, nobody cares about me, I might as well be dead..." She remembers saying this, but said it was like she was pounding and screaming in her head but she couldn't get out. She was terrified by it.

I think they can do a real number on your head, those steroids. It's unfortunate because they can be helpful medically, but for us, it wasn't worth the risk and cost. This was about 14-15 years ago, so if they had viable alternatives then, perhaps they can find some alternative for you now if you'd rather. Always worth an ask.

Definitely go to GP for preventer inhaler asap. They hate kids needing heavy steroid tabs unnecessarily so I'm sure you'll get it. Lots of practice nurses have asthma and prescribing diplomas so it might be worth seeing yours if logistics are simpler than for GP appt. Oh, and consider a flu jab for dd: flu+asthma is nasty.

Tell the GP/nurse her behaviour is wild with the stress of being ill and the side effects of oral steroids... and that it takes at least 2 weeks to settle back down. If you were wanting a referral to a developmental paediatrician, this might be a good time to ask.

Thanks very much everyone. Lots of good advice.

I think i'm defnitely going to ask for a referral. We got a letter from Inclusion Support the other day saying that DD was basically off their books. At the time you think it's a nice thing to read and then when the ASD symptoms start appearing again it just makes you feel really alone. She's starting reception class in January. Transition period in a month! She will have just turned 4. It seems so young to me, but everyone has suggested that I don't hold her back until the next september. Very hard to know what to do.

She still can't read or write. She recognises words and numbers and will try to do a circle, sometimes sucessfully, but that's it really. If she does a painting it's, to be fair, a big multi coloured blob, which i'm pretty sure is rather behind for her age. Therefore, on all levels really, i'm dreading her starting school.

Oh god, and i'm only at the begining.

Don't worry about her not being able to read and write, thats what they do in school. If she can recognise a few letters and numbers she is doing ok. The painting big blobs is fairly normal for 3/4 year ods ime.

I agree that just 4 seems young to start school, who is telling you not to wait until september. Legally children don't have to start until the term after they are 5.
If she is very bright and you think she is bored at preschool then go for it, if not I would consider waiting.

You are at the beginning but you have come to the right place for support. There are loads of great people on here with loads of advice.[hsmile].

Ineed2, I had a meeting with the schools headmaster a month or so ago and he was saying that as of next year all children will start in september and will miss out on the reception class, which apparently is very beneficial. I met the lady who does that and she seems lovely. Very calming, which is exactly what DD needs. If she starts in september, she will be thrown in at the deep end. However, she will be almost a year older, which surely helps. It's very hard to decide what to do. Pre school have been getting her ready for reception class and have not suggested she stays behind and I think they would if they thought she would struggle. Although I have issues with her key worker, it is run very well overall.

Thanks for the kind words. It really does help. [hsmile]

I wouldn't recommend anything, MissNutty, because this is an internet forum and my specialism has never been asthma. However, what I would say, is that it is unusual to find a patient with a dx of asthma who only has ventolin (the blue one, salbutamol). At the very least, most patients with dx asthma, (rather than a tendency to a wheezy chest with a cold, for example) would take a preventative inhaler twice or three times a day, such as Beclomethasone (which is an inhaled glucosteroid), then salbutamol for breakthrough attacks.

This BBC article says "A spokesperson at the National Asthma Campaign said salbutamol is only used to relieve asthma symptoms in the short-term, not to provide long-term prevention.

"We should make it clear that anybody with asthma who has to use their salbutamol every day or even several times a week should consider going back to their GP to discuss their asthma, as this can be a sign of worsening asthma."

Martyn Partridge, Chief Medical Advisor to the National Asthma Campaign told BBC News Online: "What is important is for those with asthma to have well controlled disease so that use of short acting relieving beta agonists is rarely needed."

On the preschool front, could you ask that for every negative the keyworker shares, she finds 2 positives for you to hear, too? At the very least that will reduce the negatives she comes up with

You shout because you're frustrated. You're frustrated because your body is in fight or flight mode and you're stressed. Understandably.

Keyworker sounds very unprofessional (I've been one with kids with sn many times). S/he should always balance a negative with a positive. Example: "Your DD/S washed their hands and ate dinner really sensibly and I was very proud of him/her, but unfortunately refused to take part in evening activities, the behaviour escalated and s/he threw their hot chocolate at a member of staff" (true story lol)

Do you have a friend/relative who could take over, even for an hour, so you can go for a walk and have some alone time? Sounds like some form of respite might be really useful at least in the short term.

Hi missnutty this is taking the discussion back a few points, but didn't want your questions to go un answered, my fault for jargon, Mod LD is Moderate Learning Disability,

ds will be 4 in about 2 weeks, he had no friends as such until recently, it didn't bother him, as he nhad no concept of friends, and as he bit as a means of making contact I can understand him being 'less popular' .

However he now has two actual friends and I am so chuffed, both have SN (special needs) too, one he met at the social communication group he attended for a term and the other he met at the special needs group he goes too, he signs their names and asks to go and see them..

nothing like the busy social life that friends with NT kids have, with play dates 'coming out of their ears' as it were, and it took a long time to come, but it happened in his own time, hope it does for your dd too.

Hi everyone. Sorry i've only just posted, but been very busy.

DD had a good day today. We haven't had any major tantrums so that in it's self has got to be a good thing. :)

signandsay, thanks for answering my question. Like I said before, i'm new to all this so i'm still learning.

I'm glad your DS has made some friends. Must be a lovely feeling for all of you. Fingers crossed for my DD on that front.

Does your DS go to a ms school?

Bum! (just typed really long reply and then lost it)

Glad dd had a good day, did she manage back at preschool ok?

DS in a mix of MS pre-school (2 sess) SN group (1 sess) portage (1 sess) and swimming and riding for the disabled.

local sn school very good on autism, so I hear, but quite negative about signing, so he won't be going there, had thought local SRP (unit) for LD kids was gonna be the thing, but they too have 'issues' with his signing,

may end up in ms (one positive about his signing) for infants, (with one to one) and then look at move to unit for juniors if he isn't managing, which is likely

but good thing is LA and professionals involved in the stat assess have actually been pretty brill, , so feel they actually get what he needs.

It's a big scary area though, (have had lots of info and useful things to think about from the posts of more experienced MNs here tho)