costs involved in SENDIST tribunal?

[nuru]

Facing the realisation now that unless a miracle happens, we face a real possibility of having to go to tribunal to get dd2's statement at the level she needs it to be.

What costs are involved and are there ways we can avoid these? How possible is it to represent ourselves? What are the hidden costs?

Am panicking now as we don't have the money, but really need to do this for her.

We are going to Tribunal in Dec and it has cost us nothing-we have had several reports done at GOSH which we are just waiting for-school called in the Ed Psyc to do an assessment as well as the outreach Maths Spld unit who came in to school at schools request to assess.
I am going to fight all I can to get my dd a statement-they are refusing to assess....and I am seriously hoping at the last minute they back out and we don't end up having to go.
x

nuru the most essential costs are an independent EP report and attendance at tribunal.

The rest kind of depends on your objectives, what you are aiming for and the cost of what it is you are asking for.

The money side of things is very scary, but the way we saw it was our money invested now, will prevent the costs associated with repeated broken windows, loan shark fines, police bail etc.

I'm not saying you can't represent yourself at tribunal, but I would advise against it if at all possible. Even if you have all the knowledge (which I'm afraid is a mammoth task to gain), you may not be able to think clearly or quickly enough given the emotion of the day.

The biggy for us is OT. The LEA are wriggling and wriggling. They don't want to put everything in that our independent Ot has recommended (and the recs are very reasonable and not OTT imo), we refused an assessment by the local OT as it would have been biassed. Now they are trying to suggest that an OT from the west of the county should assess and make recommendations as that would be 'independent' - I don't think so...

The actual 'schooling' / education side of it we're OK with. Still wrangling about hours but think we can get what we want on that. I guess ultimately, OT will mean money for the LEA and that is what they want to avoid.

Stark - when you say 'represent', do you mean you got a solicitor involved? Or was it just the EP.

These tribunals are tricky things. Technically you don't need anyone to represent you, but it is helpful to have an advocate, either a solicitor or a lay person who just 'knows' the system. Some of the charities may offer someone to help.

Presumably you have an independent OT!? There is no need for another one. Make sure you explain somewhere WHY you were forced to hire an independent OT. That will help.

It may be helpful then to have your OT present at the tribunal instead of an EP, providing they know how to link the OT to educational needs.

If your witness, whoever they are, is experienced in tribunals you might not need a representative, but do speak to the charities about this.

hth

We already have IPSEA involved, so that's true, they would be able to help us with an advocate - am in panic mode again after a couple of relaxed days, so thanks for pointing that out!

I think we can blow holes in their notion that a West OT would be independent - after all, I think the PCTs are combined now. Hopefully then we can plough on with our lovely independent OT and see how much she'll charge to attend the tribunal.

Thanks so much for the advice, again :)

I think that, if you refuse their assessment, the Tribunal will look quite dimly at it as they are entitled to do their own assessment.

IPSEA advocate is a great idea. Personally, my 3 Tribunals (none ever happened as LA backed down) would only ever have been free cos I couldn't afford legal rep and decided the case was so complex that it would have taken too long to explain to a rep anyway!

I refused an OT assessment.

But that is because I had a long paper trail of begging for one over and over again and it being refused.

I got my own independent one eventually, and took them to tribunal over it.

The NHS one all of a sudden piped up wanting to assess and refused on the grounds that it wasn't in ds' interests to repeat an assessment that had just been done, nor was it for any other purpose than to fight against us in tribunal which was imp unethical.

The panel agreed with me.

I think we're in a very similar situation, Stark - have talked with each other before about OT in our area .

We basically said the same thing - we've been asking for her to be actually assessed (not just given furniture) since she was 2yrs old. They've always said 'no'. When we told LEA this, they realised that they couldn't argue against our argument that it would be inappropriate for them now to assess, given that it would obviously be biassed and not in dd2's interests. However, didn't think they'd be so silly as to try and make us think another OT from the neighbouring part of the county would be any less biassed - presumably they all back each other up with the same policies of exclusion.

Giveme - were your tribunals around particular aspects of provision or 'hours'? How late did the LEA leave it before giving in?

We spent £2000 for EP report + advocate and EP to come to tribunal.
Be very careful about refusing assessment - the rules for tribunal changed last year and there is now a presumption for children to be seen by experts or a negative inference drawn. You can get round this if there is a particular reason why would be unreasonable to see your child but you run the risk of undermining your report by not allowing access. Would you not be better to just let the OT do what will probably seem a very biased and low need report and let the experts argue it out at tribunal? The tribunal would prefer to hear evidence on both sides and then draw a conclusion. I think if you stop them seeing your child you may actually make it harder for your indep OT. If her report is good and she is a good witness what do you have to fear?
The way the tribunal see it is that witnesses are all independent and there to give evidence for the benefit of the panel - anyone who seems to be biased will probably come across as such.

I would definitely recommend using an advocate..it's a great feeling to know someone with a huge depth of experience can take a lot of the strain and represent your interests dispassionately and clearly. The advocate we use charges £1500 for the whole tribunal process, which is about a tenth what a solicitor would charge for pretty much the same thing.

hth

Agnes said what I was trying to say but better!

My 3 'Tribunals' were 1) for refusal to assess. They gave in very early on, within a couple of weeks of form being filled in. They then assessed and issued a 50% 1:1 Statement with no SALT/ OT/ outreach support.

2. appealing against amended Statement. Had been amended to put in more dx info and I used that to appeal against the 50% hours as he needed 100% 1:1, as well as specifying OT. They gave in about a month after filling in the appeal form and gave 100% 1:1 plus specified OT.

3. appealing against amended Statement, which reduced the 1:1, the autism outreach and the SALT and also didn't specify SALT. This time they held out until their case statement was due - 3 months, I think.

Bastards!

Oh yuck giveme.

Would give you a but I'd be lying!

Star, hence the huge complaint referenced on my other thread. Which, by the way, I have still heard nowt about

I had someone from IPSEA with me in my two tribunals. This worked fine for us and I am relieved tbh that I hadn't put myself into massive debt by hiring a solicitor or barrister. Although I am not majorly confident I found that I was able to speak quite forcibly for my dcs and also knew the case and the issues better than anyone else there. If you can afford representation then fine, it certainly would cut down all the preparation and stress but I know people who have spent thousands on legal firms and been unsuccessful.

Well giveme I expect they're taking advice and trying to figure out how to make you go away as quickly as possible without admitting anything.

These things take time because the people involved are not only inefficient, but in denial. They can only move forward themselves once they have accepted the dx, and then with such an uncertain prognosis they have to go through a bit of a bereavement where they realise that their next few months aren't going to be the way they planned for them..............

Thanks everyone - more food for thought! Will get back to IPSEA again, and also speak to the independent OT. Let's see what hare-brained idea the LEA come up with next

I think the costs and whether you need a rep will depend on what kind of provision you're seeking and how complex the child/legal case is.

It doesn't sound like what you're asking for much more than OT (presumably in a ms school) so the LA could well agree before the hearing, especially if you have a good independent OT report. If you can get an IPSEA advocate that is great, but I know that they have to limit themselves to the most complex cases, so there's no guarantee that you'd get one.

I won our tribunal with the help of a solicitor and I think it was essential in our case as DD's needs are very complex and there was a lot of wrangling over obscure legal points at the hearing. Our provision (independent special school) is very expensive and LAs do tend to fight harder against them.

It wasn't easy for us to afford it, but in the long term, it's worth it for us as the provision she got will enable her to be independent in later life instead of being dependent on us long-term. The special school place also means that I don't have to 'police' the statement as the school have all their therapists on site - many people win SALT/OT on the statement and then have to keep fighting because it's not actually being provided.