How old does a child has to be before a speech sound disorder can be worked on?

[genieinabottle]

And even more importantly before SALT can started to work properly on speech sounds production?

I'm very puzzled by this. DS is nearly 5 (in a couple of weeks).
He has ASD, and he has speech and lang.disorder.
He also has significant problems with his speech sounds production/phonology.

But we have been given a couple of vague possibilities for his speech sounds issues.
First we were told maybe verbal dyspraxia.
Then a few months down the line after working with DS for a few months, SALT said he has a dysarthric speech.
She also mentioned possible velo-pharengeal or soft cleft palate problems.
But added he was too young to find out for sure. And may need to be refered to a specialist SALT base outside of our area for further tests.

So in other ways they are not sure at all what it is.

Another thing is we were told he is also too young to do a specific SALT programme to address the speech sounds problems. Atm, we just do tongue, lips, mouth,(Mr. Tongue type stuff) and for us to sound out hard consonants to DS a few minutes each day, all very simple non-specific exercises.

So when do children who have problems with speech sounds get specific help with this?

Thanks.

Not sure if it is exactly the same, but my friend's daughter needed help specifically learning to say the sound 's', she was at speech therapy for it last year and has since been discharged (fixed), she is nearly 5, so she started therapy just after her forth birthday.

Thanks LMG.

4 y old ... am i being fobbed off about DS then...

My DD started SALT at 3.5. She had significant problems with most of her sounds. BUT we had to go private as there was little NHS provision. (Fortunately i have a friend who is a SALT and did us a good deal ). This was nearly 10 years ago though, but i know SALT services can still be very variable in their amount of provision.

There is no doubt though that the early input made a huge difference as before she started about 90% was impossible to understand, but when she started school it was about 40 - 50% which made life a lot easier for her.

She is a gobby teenager now who doesn't stop talking

hi, ds1 is 4.2 and he has not got a specific dx but told probably verbal dyspraxia. He has been working on specific sounds since he started nursery which was last Jan. If fact as part of his ieps he had to work on specific sounds and then blending those sounds so he would of been 3.4 when he started. He is about to start in a speech unit but was in ms (for 1/2 a term [hgrin] ) and his school carried on with the same approach his nursery (which was a specialist nursery) had.

we started with salt at 3 though was very patchy but was certainly doung mr tounge then and we was refered to cleft lip an dpalate team who are worried about shape of palate affecting speech

he is now in a speech unit is 5.4

My DS started SALT the day after his 3rd birthday (strange how some dates stick in your mind). he was referred at his 2 year check, but told that they didn't start the SALT process until 3. Which i now find to be a complete load of .. DS3 has swallowing issues and was seen before he was 2 - to do the tongue movement type exercises.
They may have a suggested age that they go in depth for certain conditions, but like most things - it can be moved.
Like Madoldbird DD, DS1 is an olympic talker (7) and DS3 (3.3) can talk the hind legs of a donkey - still can't swallow though!

DS got Speech and Language therapy from 2yrs 6 months, but I can't say it was worth the effort of getting to the appointments.

Lots of blowing bubbles and trying to get ds to say 'more'. Nearly every appointment was like this. DS had no interest in bubbles and could quite clearly say 'Can I have a biscuit please?' and anything else that he DID want.

Some of the subsequent sessions offered advice such as sing nursery rhymes once a day and read a book now and then and just talk to your child.

Then about a year later they introduced PECS (yes, for a child who could also use a name before requesting something verbally and even tell you where it was).

Anyway, the good thing was that through a series of systematic complaints we finally climbed the SALT professionals to get someone senior with a vague understanding of autism and the provision got a bit better.

Problem is, by that stage she was too scared of me to be helpful. She would come round and say 'what do you want me to do?' and then the last 2 times she was simply testing him to gather evidence for tribunal.

Opppps, big waffle - sorry.

I agree star that some of the sessions were painful to attend. Spending ages to organise travel, childcare etc for a meeting that achieved precisely nothing. Having said that mine for DS1 gave me a couple of techniques that have become invaluable - still used today.
My SALT has also been 1 of the few professionals that has offered support for me with other agencies. She managed to get a dieticians appt. where a gastro paediatrician, developmental paediatrician, GP and HV all failed.

Thanks for replies.

DS is under SALT (at school now) and has been on the salt books since aged 2.3. Although he didn't have any actual salt sessions until he was 2.8.

He also has spent his last pre-school year in a dual placement ms nursery, and a sen language unit, where he made good progress with his language delays.

But on the school provision paperwork salt sent to us explaining what he 'd get,... they are still saying he is too young to do a programme to work specificaly on his speech sounds issues. And he is nearly 5!!

So on top of having to second guess what he means when he talks 'in riddles' because of the asd, we also struggle to understand as his speech is so unclear.
It's so frustrating for him and us.

Do you think that some of the speech sounds involves looking at letters - or visual clues that they don't think that children under a certain age would 'get'? It might also involve a level of control that a pre-schooler might struggle with - more sitting and doing, less play?

Ds is not much older than yours and has other issues sling with the speech dyspraxia and he recevies daily theraphy as well as the whole day within language unit so it's constant and they do work them hard none if the poor child he can't do it there encouraged so much to just try

they said if we been here when was younger ds could gone in reception at 4.1 so they don't do the well there not caperable

We used dd2's knowledge of letters to help with this. We had already taught her through ABA programme to say all the phonic sounds of letters and she could identify lots of sight words as she is very visual learner. SALT agreed to use this approach rather than nuffield pictures as these meant very little to dd2. This was apparently not the way this is usually done, but she could see that this might work for dd2. It has really helped her and her sound production is improving. We worked first on consonants and then on vowels and are now tring to link the two to get simple sounds like moo, bee car etc. I don't think your dc is too young, you just need a salt who will accept to look for different ways of achieving something. IMO they are often very rigid. We found most of those dealing with ASD children tended to focus on the sort of nonsense Star has mentionned.

Hi

I suspect the issue here is one of diagnosis.

Treatment protocols will be very different depending on whether the diagnosis is related to cleft, dyspraxia etc.

The ASD complicates things, as sometimes (but very rarely), unusual speech substitions can relate to the ASD.

If I were you, I would contact them and specifically ask what it is that they won't be able to work out until he's older.

Dyspraxia is notoriously hard to diagnose. You have to do therapy and see if it works. That may be further complicated by the fact he has autism if he had difficulties attending/generalising from the therapy.

I know this is probably no help, but just my thoughts..

I was told when ds was 3.8 that ge had suspectedAdd your message here (See our Talk guidelines)
oral dyspraxia but still little help as they said gdd to

but I went to ican when ds was 4,4 he spent 2 says there and they confirmed that ds had oral dyspraxia and Devlopmental verbal dyspraxia few months after fmthr nhs salt said yeah I agree I had been wondering for a while yet she said nothing

I moved and used the ican report to push and get a speech unit placement

Yes ds has other problems and we know there's a palate function problem to but he gets a lot of theraphy

Do know that salt ANC units are not keen when there's other dx alongside az they say there for pure speech disorders.But it can be done ds is pd alongside the speech and has other issues ,You just need to insist that the primary issues Is speech not the asd and they won't know that unless he gets regular theraphy

Ds. Speech is very poor but he and them work hard and there's none of this of poor ds

Peasant, did you manage to get an ICAN assesment privately or how do you get into it? Not something I have had to invesigate: practically, how did it work?

Hi arses

yes the ican assement was private had talked yo Nuffield previously but they could not help we had been following their program for 12 months and no progress and because of the severity of it and the GDD. Refused after discussion to help

I called ican following recommendation from someone on here ,They then called me back had long conversation on phone they then asked mr to send latest salt stuff paed stuff .
They then looked it over and agreed they might help so we went down stayed in area and ds attended their school for 2 days was partialy funded by their bursary

the report from salt,ot and their ep ran to 40 pages list of recommendations was 2 pages long and very specfic none of this wushu washy stuff

That report was my evidence for speech unit proved ds was not as gdd as they thought showed speech was big issue and in fact most of his delayed were down to no speech and pd not gdd

I then looked round all speech units and choose one I wanted and informed LeA who after seeing the paperwork from ican knew there was no way they win at tribunal and rolled over helped by fact after seeing the ican reports which I took handed copy to every unit I went to ,2 said no to sever. So ds placement is out of lea area north hertd rather than east Herts

if I could have found way would have moved and fought the Lea in Surrey for place in the ican school I would of

but have next best thing ds unit the teacher used to work at ican school only moving because of marriage and has set the unit up using very similar principled

Should add ds is the first child to get place in the unit that has pd alongside other problems and was only achevied thanks to ican

their report even helped me get ot in his statement which is first for unit to

DD started SALT at 2 years 8 months privately. Started on NHS at 2 years 9 months when she was diagnosed with Developmental Verbal Dyspraxia. Was told she should catch up with peers by the time she started reception class. Has just been discharged with almost a year to go before starting 'big school'. Sessions started with just licking sprinkles off lips, blowing feathers and saying 'mmmmmmm' but was obviously the right time to start for her. The sooner the better, I say, as long as the child is keen. Hope this helps. x

DS started SALT for speech sounds at 3.5 and was discharged from pre school SALT at 4.5
He now has SALT through the school but is much improved from when he started!

Sorry haven't had much time to reply to posts.

Anyway thank you for all the replies

I have dug out all of the reports that were written by SALT during his time at the lang.unit and have seen on the last one that re: the speech sounds issues. ..."that due to DS's current level of language and attention levels, it is not yet appropriate to target this area for specific intervention...." should have re-read all the reports before posting.

I've been wondering about this with my own DS (3.3, has verbal dyspraxia). He's enjoying therapy, and can do the speech sound production exercises OK (even does /f/ occasionally and with much delight), and loves Mr Tongue. But he's hugely resistant to listening and is developing ways of cheating-he's filing the right answers away (so knows spoon is /s/ but then can't do a new /s/ word). Doesn't help he can also read a bit, so in some cases is cheating that way from having learnt the word. And he's explicitly resistant to applying what he's learnt (so can be coached to say fire engine but then reverts to what he calls 'his word' in speech). Ultimately seems difficult to know where to go until he matures enough to understand why this is being done, and fear exacerbating resistance by continuing.

Get the impression that the NHS SaLT will ditch him because he lacks the other skills necessary to commit to this, and that terrifies me because I feel he is making progress and because her help in screaming at ENT seems the next stage forward (since he is perpetually full of cold and glue ear and seems to find hearing and correcting hardest).

I don't know your SaLT, but I'd be bothered about an assessment based on what happens in sessions. I feel he does more differently at home and would want that thought about. And definitely don't see age as an issue-just capability-and would be upset if it were seen as one.

sorry not had time to read all replies but my DS has had tose tests and treatment!! he is only JUST 3!! he has had palette checked and all sorts of things. Inconclusive btw but just wanted to quickly tell you that!

Sorry, he started SALT at 2.2 he is now approaching 3.2 he still has few words ad cannot join any togther. Not ASD but I reckon it is a fine line - he has rather a lot of erm, quirks!

This is only slightly relevant, but just wanted to vent. Have just taken DS1 to the doctor because he has (yet another) ear infection-something everyone involved affects his ability to respond to therapy for developmental verbal dyspraxia, and may indeed be a causal factor. This doctor, my GP, examined him, noted that his ears were incredibly full of soft wax, that he probably could hear nothing from one at all, and certainly no consonants from the other (I would note DS's behaviour was not abnormal, this must be a semi-usual state of affairs for him). Then Doctor went 'looks a sensible and patient boy, I'll take the wax out'. Which he did as far as he could, then referred him for suction at ENT in two days time. I asked why, despite having been in and out of the sodding surgery every two or three weeks for the last year and being told my son had a build up of wax, and having been to ENT and told diagnosis was impossible because of the congestion, nobody had done this before. Oh, says Doctor, we're told not to do this for children under five in case they resist. In other words, for at least a year DS's exposure to sound and the impact of therpay has been affected because nobody bothered to simply try because of his age.

I know this is good news, but am still really angry. It's not even a postcode lottery, it's a sodding 'who has a slot free when your kid is ill lottery'. Utterly, utterly astonishing that anyone could think of an SN kid with a DEVELOPMENTAL disorder in such blanket age terms. Its sodding capability not age, fools.

I feel your pain, my DD has just been referred to ENT for repeated ear infections/congestion..she can't speak at 4, it won't be the whole story but can't be helping, and I'm sure she will be at least 5 before anything is sorted out. (and thats being optimistic!)

Sum total of SALT we get is the occasional print out of things we should do at home.