Developmental Coordination Disorder or ASD

[yanny]

DD(10.9) was given dx of Developmental Coordination Disorder at the end of August at a multidisciplinary meeting at school. We were also on the waiting list for CAMHS for about 2 yrs and we had this appointment on Tuesday of this week.

Clinical Psyc took detailed history (appt that was meant to be an hour long was 2 hours). Then went on to say she would like DD assessed for ASD.

This was unexpected because I thought we already had a firm dignosis and was hoping to be given some support managing the anxieties/fixations/social skills and also a cognitive profile/assessmenmt. I'm now left wondering whether to agree to ASD assessment(dd has just spent 10 months having every available SALT assessment for her age)

I suppose what I would really like to know initially is this; having read about the triad of impairments how does imagination fit into the higher functioning end of the spectrum? Dd has a pretty good imagination and I know of a few local children (inc my younger brother) who have been assessed by the local Autism team (under CAMHS). Because they seem to have some kind of imagination (my brother had to 'play' with a long piece of string, a toy car and a small plastic dinosaur) they did't warrant an ASD dx.

If this is the case, being dd has a pretty good imagination, I would prefer to spare her any more assessments that weren't necessary.

But until the dx of DCD, I believed it could possibly be DCD/Dyspraxia (think the terms are used interchangeably) or Aspergers as the symtoms are pretty much identical.

I just feel a bit thrown now and definitely don't want to go through any assessments that aren't required. Paed, Salt and OT have never suggested ASD.

Anyone with HFA children who have good imgination?

Anyone?

My son has DVD he is 11 years and was diagnosed 5 years ago. Not really sure if I am going to answer your question but will try. My son has an incredible imagination but is often based around 2 or 3 subjects, ie dinosaurs monsters, he does not just play but enters a completely different world, he writes incredible stories in minute detail. He also gets very obsessive over things like a particular toy or object that he must, just now it's a toy werewolf, as far as I know it's part of his condition.

Sorry meant DCd not DVD stupid autofill

I am slightly confused at the moment about the similarities between DCD and AS, I have done a lot of reading lately but its not really helping. I would allow the assessmnet if it was my Dd3 becasue the 2 conditions could be co morbids. I will watch this thread with interest as it seems our Dds could have similar issues.

My DD has dx dyspraxia and they have always queried aspergers but never felt there was enough evidence to support a dx. It has never bothered me as ultimately it's just a word and it's more about the help that is received than getting a dx. He is high functioning. His imagination is very individual. He will read what he wants into whatever he is given, but it may not be what would be classed as conventional.
I remember a picture he was given to describe of children playing in a park. He thought that the boy was falling off a log - and insisted that he would break his leg, or worse, he could hit his head and he would die - horribly, covered in blood. now that is what i call imagination - but i'm sure that there were a few raised eyebrows - he was just over 3 at the time!
I have always been advised not to refuse any help offered as you never know when the contact might be helpful. I can understand how appointment after appointment is frustrating for all concerned. You might meet someone at this appointment who can help you manage fixations, social skills and anxieties or signpost you to the right place.

My ds have autism, not high functioning. He has an amazing imagination, he has imaginary friends, he can pretend a pencil is a sword, he makes little toy people talk to each other, he will tell you there is a spider on your shoulder when there is not etc, etc.

However ds struggles with separating fantasy from reality and rigid thinking. He struggles if other individuals are involved and have different ideas from him or who dont perform the way he want them to. He wants to control what they do.

Thanks for all your replies

Presario I assumed all the quirks were part of the DCD, I'm just not sure now. Does your son have any sensory issues? DD is tactile defensive. She does the story writing too in great detail and the current 'obsession' is anything Twilight. Vampires/werewolves, she writes about them, draws them and talks about them!

Ineed2 I did a bit of reading too which meant I just ended up more confused than I was to begin with. I read a book called Aspergers and Girls by Tony Attwood and Temple Grandin which really gave me a lot to think about. Also, NVLD (non verbal learning disorder/disability) is strikingly similar to DCD and Aspergers. This was considered a while back but never mentioned again.

Auntevil That is definitely some imagination! I understand that the name doesn't matter because the needs are the same regardless. I think it really comes down to being tired of the years already spent with assessments/appointments and thought now we had a dx it gave a bit of closure if you understand what I mean. You are right though about not refusing help, that's good advice.

Claw3 That's interesting. Dd also had various imaginary friends (we had the whole of the Sonic team living with us about a year ago when she was obsessed with Sonic!) I think if people have children with ASD who also have imagination and can pretend then I won't think twice about seeing the Autism team. I just assumed imagination would more than likely rule out ASD but that's obviously not the case!

Thanks again for all the replies :)

Claw.. if you are still around I don't mean to hijack [sorry yanny] but I think Dd3 struggles with fantasy and reality too. She sometimes asks me if the people on tv are really doing things, for example on the kids show "trapped" she asked if the children were actually doing the challenges.
I am gathering eveidence for her next appointment so would be interested in anyonse views..

Yanny.. I have the aspergers and girls book, It has some interesting stuff in but I have found it more relevant to my older Dd.
I have been downloading articles from all over the web to back up my observations. I am having dificulty getting Dd3's issues taken seriously, She has an appointment on Monday so I need to sort out all the stuff I have collected because I am going to need a large crate to carry it in. I think it might be a bit off putting for the new pead.[hgrin][hgrin].

Ineed2, i was saying earlier on another thread, the way ds views the world is extremely different, he finds it very difficult to separate fantasy from reality, fact from fantasy. His language frequently involves confused ideas and others find it very difficult to follow.

So ds has a great imagination, because they are HIS ideas, he cant incorporate anyone else's ideas into his, his thinking is very rigid, so his ideas then become fact to him. So really his imagination is limited.

Ds can build quite complex lego model, so you think wow what an imagination, but the lego pieces do exactly what he wants them to do and dont have any idea of their own!

Put him with another child to make a lego model and he will either want to tell them exactly what to do and get frustrated if they dont or he will just sit and let them take over and have no input. No working together.

Hope that makes sense

Claw i agree with you about the confused ideas. My DS has almost sonic hearing for picking up odd bits of conversation - storing it and then repeating it verbatim when he chooses to put it in a conversation that he thinks it fits into. so his imagination within a conversation is a bit like googling the information in his head. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't! [hgrin]

Auntevil, i can relate to that! google search engine

Ds is doing his very random bit at the moment, not sure if it is a phase or he wants to avoid the question or whether he has regressed. So someone will say to him "what did you do today?" and he will answer with something totally random like "my dog has the same birthday as me"

He seems to want to turn conversations into things he feels safe with and has knowledge of like his dog. What did you do today is far too compacted, when was today, which part do you want to know about etc, etc.

He also puts his hands over his ears and says 'blah, blah, blah' when people talk too much. People think this is very rude, but to him that is probably exactly as it sounds blah, blah, blah far too much information for me to handle!

Thanks mumslife, that's really helpful. Dds imagination is pretty much limited to the latest obsession and she doesn't find it easy to play when someone wants to add their ideas either. I don't feel like it will be an unnecessary assessment after reading the replies from everyone here. Glad I asked :)

My DS1 (also 10) has AS/DCD and a pretty good imagination - we were told at parents' evening last week that his literacy work is good as he has good ideas and writes very well which I doubt he could do without imagination. That said, he isn't a great one for playing games, but he can imagine all sorts of horrible scenarios to very simple occurences which seems like a pretty good imagination to me.

There is a huge overlap between DCD and AS. DS has rather a complicated dx because the clinical psych said his social comms problems weren't bad enough to be given AS dx but still he ended up with it as a dx and then later the OT gave him the DCD dx too.

Anyway, I read a really good book a few months ago called Caged in Chaos which is about DCD and was written by a 16 yr old girl with the condition. It was really readable and I would recommend it even though it is aimed at teenagers - 10 yr olds aren't far off these days though are they?!! A lot of the behaviours I thought were only AS were talked about in this book as being typically DCD.

On the other hand, DS doesn't tick enough boxes in the AS books I have read imo and fits more neatly into a DCD dx but HCP don't care - he has a label which will get him help and that is enough. I can understand not wanting to go through the assessments but I am thinking nowadays that if you get more support because of it, it might be worth it, particularly as AS is better known and understood than DCD which many people haven't heard of.

Niecie thanks for your reply. I will look out for that book, I haven't actually discussed dx with dd yet but will be soon. Maybe it will be helpful :)

I hear what you're saying about support. We recieve none (under sensory OT but all therapy is done at home by me). I was told to check the Dyspraxia Foundation but there are no support groups anywhere near us in Scotland. DCD isn't very well known is it? The few people I've talked to about it have never heard of it. I feel better about the assessment, I was concerned she couldn't have AS due to her imagination but it's obviously not as simple as that! She has a cognitive assessment on Tuesday so will be able to ok the referral then. Thank goodness for mumsnet! :)

Ineed2 Best of luck with your appointment. Sending positive thoughts. Hope it goes well, dds issues weren't taken seriously for a long time either. Hope the paed appreciates all the paperwork