Keeping him off school

[walesblackbird]

My 6 year old son has a 1 day formal exlcusion - today - for 'bad' behaviour in school. Whereas up until now he has had supportive teachers, sadly this year he doesn't. He has a formal dx of adhd and is medicated - very low dose which the Psych hasn't yet got quite right.

He's also adopted so there are some undiagnosed attachment issues/developmental trauma as well.

Has been assessed for the 3rd time by Ed Psych who feels that his best option is a period of time in a PRU - basically we haven't been given an option.

I've read the Ofsted report and it does seem to be an excellent unit - pretty much all outstanding gradings. It's still very scary but I have to accept that right now he's unable to cope with mainstream and school is having a terrible effect on his behaviour at home as well.

We have various appts pending but I'm really reluctant to send him back to school knowing that next time he's going to get a slightly longer exclusion followed by yet another etc etc. I would prefer that he had a poor sickness record than a record of continual exclusions.

He is, in a way, sick .... he has a mental health illness and is in receipt of DLA. Can I keep him home until we know what's happening with the PRU? Do children need a sick note? Just not sure what to do but I don't want to damage his self esteem even more than this school have already done.

Yes, if you want to keep him home then keep him home, as you say he is sick as in he has mental health issues. I have kept dd1 home before when school has got too much for her and the school has put it down as 'sickness/illness. Would the school agree to just sending him for 3 days a week for a while to see if it helps?

tbh I think they just want him out and I'm having real issues with this teacher. She says all the right things but from what's happening in school it's quite clear that she's saying one thing and doing another.

She doesn't understand about developmental trauma - although she says she does. She just doesn't get him and frankly doesn't want to. He's disruptive in class and basically she doesn't want him there. I'm pretty sure that if I send him in - even for a day - he'll end up having to come home.

They've been ringing me pretty much every day to complain about his behaviour and none of the literature I've given them seems to have made an impression.

After 3 very supportive and understanding teachers - under whom he did really well - he's been let down by this one and I'd rather he had nothing more to do with her.

Ideally I'd prefer that he was in school getting an education but realistically have to accept that he wasn't learning anything. The whole thing was just too stressful for him.

tbh I think they just want him out and I'm having real issues with this teacher. She says all the right things but from what's happening in school it's quite clear that she's saying one thing and doing another.

She doesn't understand about developmental trauma - although she says she does. She just doesn't get him and frankly doesn't want to. He's disruptive in class and basically she doesn't want him there. I'm pretty sure that if I send him in - even for a day - he'll end up having to come home.

They've been ringing me pretty much every day to complain about his behaviour and none of the literature I've given them seems to have made an impression.

After 3 very supportive and understanding teachers - under whom he did really well - he's been let down by this one and I'd rather he had nothing more to do with her.

Ideally I'd prefer that he was in school getting an education but realistically have to accept that he wasn't learning anything. The whole thing was just too stressful for him.

I would suggest going to your GP and asking for a sick note to cover you in case of issues with Education Welfare.

The PRU placement sounds good, although they often focus purely on behaviour rather than dealing with the underlying SN. Have you visited the unit? I would keep pushing to find out when a place will become available. My DS was referred for an 'emergency' placement at a PRU but he ended up waiting half a term.

It does sound like the current school isn't meeting his needs. A PRU should only be considered as a short-term measure and there should always be a plan to re-integrate back to mainstream or SN school. Have you looked at other local schools which might be more suitable?

Wales

You wrote "Has been assessed for the 3rd time by Ed Psych who feels that his best option is a period of time in a PRU - basically we haven't been given an option."

YOU DO HAVE THE OPTION OF REFUSING THE PRU.

Let me tell you about PRUs - Pupil Referal Units.

These are basically 'sin bins' for the baddest of the bad pupils. The teachers there have no special training in SENs. the PRU is just designed to house the child temporarily with a view to getting him straight back into mainstream eductaion as soon as possible - often back to the same school as before with the same inadequate support as before.

the reason i said that you should reject sending him to the PRU is that the LA themselves know that the Dept ofr education guidance on PRUs states quite clearly that " children with long-term special needs should be educated in special school and not in PRUs" if the cannot attend mainstream.

So basically this is a try-on by the LA to get you to go along with something that is against educational guidelines.

Don't do it.

The reason I say don't do it is because in the PRU he will be faced with non-SEN children with really poor behaviour - which he will inevitably copy and end up even more confused and worse behaved than before. Thta's a fact.

The LA need to start looking for suitable long-term placement for him that can meet his needs - not a PRU.

If you tell the LA that they are acting agaisnt Dept for ed guidance in trying to send him there you'll find they back down pretty quickly.

They tried it on with us too and I refused to send my DS to a PRU. He received home eductaion from LA tutors instead.

Stand your ground.

Best wishes

WetAugust, DS was in a PRU for a year. While I agree that it didn't meet his ASD needs and he was in contact with pupils with behavioural difficulties, I didn't find that he copied their behaviour, and it was a supportive environment for him.

The fact that it had very small classes and a high staff-pupil ratio helped with his sensory difficulties/preventing bullying, and a lot of their work was geared towards improving self-esteem, which was/is a big aspect of DS's problems. They used reward systems which are now used in his current ASD-specific placement. There was more awareness of his SEN there than in his ms placement (partly because many undxd ASD/ADHD children ended up there).

I think it depends very much on the individual PRU - many are dumping grounds but it sounds like this one may be promising. I think walesblackbird needs to visit the unit before making any decisions. It's important to make sure she's aware of alternatives like home ed, but also important not to reject the PRU out of hand without investigating it for herself.

Sorry sugar - I have to disagree.

If Wales goes along with the PRU suggestion she's only conspiring with the LA to deny / delay her son obtaining a proper suitable placement.

A PRU is not a place for a child with long-term SENs and her LA knows this.

I'm pleased that your PRU was OK. the one that my DS spent one afternoon in was hell on earth. Stones trown at the classroom windows by other pupils who burst into the classroom and threatened him and his fellow pupils. Police cars in the playground when I arrived to collect him.

One afternoon was enough to say "No Way" and the LA did not force us. My solicitor also backed up my stance.

I agree that we do need to see it and I need to do some more research. The fact is that the school he's in at the moment simply isn't meeting his needs and Sugar - our children sound very similar. Poor social skills, self esteem, sensory difficulties - he's had problems with schooling since his time in the nursery and tbh I don't really fully know what's behind it - although I can surmise that it's a mix of his ADHD and Developmental Trauma. School freaks him out. The number of children, the noise, the chaos - he just cannot cope with so many people/children in a small space. He's hypervigilant, he needs to keep himself safe - because of previous experiences.

And this PRU is experienced in working with adopted children and LAC so I'm hopeful that they will at least understand that there are reasons for his behaviour and work with him on those - rather than just seeing him as a naughty child.

The aim is to re-intergrate him back into mainstream and I do suspect that I will be looking at an alternative school for him as I have lost faith in this one - for him. My other two children cope with no real issues. His life story is different.

I think I will make an appt to see the GP - I really don't want to send him back to an atmosphere which I feel will be hostile.

wetAugust
"Let me tell you about PRUs - Pupil Referal Units.

These are basically 'sin bins' for the baddest of the bad pupils. The teachers there have no special training in SENs. the PRU is just designed to house the child temporarily with a view to getting him straight back into mainstream eductaion as soon as possible - often back to the same school as before with the same inadequate support as before.

the reason i said that you should reject sending him to the PRU is that the LA themselves know that the Dept ofr education guidance on PRUs states quite clearly that " children with long-term special needs should be educated in special school and not in PRUs" if the cannot attend mainstream.

So basically this is a try-on by the LA to get you to go along with something that is against educational guidelines.

Don't do it."

Have you ever worked in an outstanding PRU?

Get your facts right.

BigTilly

My facts are right.

Children with SENs should not be educated in a PRU.

So apart from cut and pasting my original post - what's your point?

You are wrong to say they are "sin bins" - that implies there is nothing done to help them try to change their behaviour.

You are wrong to say "the teachers there have no training in SEN's" that is NOT the case.

Of course not all PRU's are outstanding, but the one the OP's child may go to is.

And sadly, not all LA's have home-tutors.

Strange - it was a teacher at the PRu which my son attended who decribed them to me as 'sin bins'. And then went on to say they were the last step before juvenile detention for some.

So just what training do you have in supporting ASD, apart from the publications issued by the Dept of Ed. I'd prefer my child to be in a setting where the staff had substantial ASD experience.

All LA do have home tutors actually - that's something I do know. They may not be employed 100% as home tutors as they often use PRU staff, Hospital school staff and supply teachers - we had all of these EOTAS over a period of 10 months.

Are you trying to tell me that a child in your LA who is not medically fit enough to attend school receives no home tution from the LA at all?

If so that is truly appalling.

Are you disputing the fact that Dept of Ed guidance states that a child with longterm SENs should not be educated in a PRU?

GPs don't have an official role in kids' sick notes (unlike job/DWP ones). It's a parent's perogative to decide if their child is poorly. If there's doubt about the parent's judgement the educational welfare or school health service should discuss matters with them.

Occasionally, a GP or a specialist will agree to confirm an illness to prevent hassle, but it's the exception. And illness doesn't necessarily exempt a dc from school, hence the existence of the hospital education service.

Excluding a child, or having an unauthorised (ie non-illness) has more consequences for a school than illness. So they're more likely to work to sort the problems out than if dc is logged as unwell.

DC is obviously being failed by ms at the moment, and the school and LA need to reassess his needs urgently, and make appropriate provision. Some PRUs help with this, others don't, so take your time deciding.

PS Your GP may well be very helpful in managing the symptoms, making more referrals, being a sounding board etc... asking for a copy of letters written, or the consultation record would probably be more useful than a sick note.

wales

It sounds as though MS is not providing the support he requires.

If he doesn't already have a Statement I would be requesting a statutory assessment now.

About PRUs and whether you must send him there or not - take a look here www.teachingexpertise.com/articles/what-makes-a-pru-successful-2738 where it clearly states

"Commonly, pupils with statements of special educational need had been admitted to PRUs without appropriate decisions being taken about long-term placement. In four PRUs some statements of educational special need named it as the school to provide the support; this does not fully comply with the Department for Children, Schools and Families (DCSF) guidance that where a pupil?s special needs are long-term the pupil should be given a special school rather than a PRU placement."

So tell the LA that a PRU is not appropraite and you want a suitable long-term placement that can support his needs.

Best wishes

I would agree that a PRU shouldn't be named on a statement and it shouldn't be considered as a long-term placement. But I don't think that is what's being described here - they can (and should) be used as a short-term answer whilst a longer-term school placement is being sought. Home ed could be used instead - but I think that also shouldn't be used long-term and you should be looking for an appropriate school (unless the parent has elected to do so).

DS's PRU wasn't anything like the one WetAugust describes and I would never have sent him there if it was. I'm sure that the OP wouldn't send their child to a PRU like that either.

welshblackbird - I responded to your other thread about the Note in Lieu. When was it issued? Because you are able to appeal against the decision not to provide a Statement, if the Note was issued less than two months ago.

Thanks all. The note in lieu was issued in March so too late to appeal. At that time his 1-1 hours were raised from 5 to 10 - still not enough and a statement was refused. Hence the note in lieu.

The intention is that he will spend somewhere between 2 and 4 terms at this PRU before being re-integrated into mainstream. No-one is talking about this being a permanent move and they're all very hopeful that this wil help some of his behavioural problems and allow him to function in a mainstream school. Believe me, with three adopted children I am far from naive and have read and researched until I'm frankly knackered.

We are also having support from cahms and his medication isn't right at the moment either I'm sure. And this is also something that we need to do some more work on.

He is a difficult child to manage. Mostly at school but he can be very challenging at home as well and has lashed out at me fairly frequently when things aren't going quite as planned. I've been hit, kicked, have had a glass door smashed, items thrown out of windows so I know that he can be quite a violent child at times. He's never hurt either of his sibs and I really don't think he would ever do that but he needs help right now - and so do we.

He starts therapy on Monday and SS have been requested to formally assess his needs but as usual budget comes into it. No adoption support plan from placing authority so they'll be arguing about who pays for any help.

I do appreciate all your comments and I will read everything thoroughly. At the moment I feel as if I'm sinking and cannot see the point of sending him back to school only for them to exclude him 5 minutes later.

wales

I would make a formal request for a Statement to your LEA asap.

I guess too you were sold the idea of the note in lieu by the LEA so therefore accepted it:(.

PRUs are not suitable placements for children with SEN, if the LEA send him there (due mainly to cost) they are further failing him.

Can I do that now? My LEA seem to be very reluctant to issue statements - I've seen the figures and the number goes down every year. Even the majority of children in this PRU don't have statements.

Given that the Note in Lieu was only issued in March do I not have to wait?

No - you don't have to wait. It's now 6 months since the NIL was issued so you can now make another request for Stat Assess.

I would start from scratch with a determination to follow the new request through to the bitter end.

Spending a relatively short time in a PRU and returning to an unsuitable MS placement is not a viable solution. He may need a speacilaist placement but only a full Stat Assess will tell you whether that's required.

Don't worry that your LA issues fewer Statements each year - just persue your own case and refuse to take 'No' for an answer. You already have proof that his current placement has broken down - that alone is sufficient to ask for a full Stat Assess.

Best wishes

You will need to write to the Chief Education Officer at your LEA and give this person six weeks to reply.

IPSEA's website is very good if you're wondering what to write:-

www.ipsea.org.uk

Good luck!

Thank you. The teacher is so important and this one has let him down spectacularly. Can't say I'm surprised - we had a bit of an argument last year over the issue of baby photographs and she couldn't get then that baby photographs was a difficult topic for adopted children. Told me I was making a fuss.

I need to do some research on what options are available to him regarding his education, made more complicated by the fact that I have another two children in this school.

I have found another local school - which has a less than wonderful academic record but which does have a higher proportion of children with special educational needs and which, according to its Estyn report, does outstandingly well.

I think sometimes the problems with more 'middle class' types schools is that they are woefully unprepared for dealing with any children who are out of the ordinary. This school just wants nice children who can manage in school and who don't place any extra demands on its staff.

And my son doesn't fit the mould.

Thank you for all your advice.