Can I keep my child out of school?

[rebl]

Where do I stand legally on this?

Background: My ds's needs are not being met at his ms school although the school think that they are meeting his needs. Things have been bad since he started (5 weeks ago), they refuse to communicate with us and just poo poo our concerns. He has got out of school once although this has been dealt with in a satisfactory manner so I don't think it would happen again. He has been hitting other children and I have only found out about it from my dd or other children. I have been in and spoken to the teacher on a number of occassions, the last one just over a week ago, saying that I knew he was hitting in school I was concerned by the reports I was hearing. The teacher categorically told me even then that there were no concerns even though she admitted that he hits on a regular basis but not everyday. I told her that I wanted to be informed of any hitting.

Fast forward to Thursday morning this week. I notice ds is only sitting next to someone on his left side. The girl next to him had been moved. I knew he'd been hitting her from my dd but thats it. Thursday 9:05 ds hit the girl on his left with a book. This was witnessed by the girls mother. She went in an complained after school.

Friday morning I have to leave my son sitting by himself with a table between himself and the rest of the group. The teacher did not make any attempt to talk to me. He was picked up by the after school club and he spent 3hrs telling the staff there how much he hated school and he's not allowed to sit next to anyone. I pick him up from there and he spent until he went to bed telling me and dh repeatedly how he hates school. Again this morning he's said he hates school, that he's the only one who isn't allowed to sit next to his friends, he can't hear his friends, he wants to sit next to dd so she can tell him what his friends are saying.

I don't want to have it out with the teacher in the classroom 1st thing monday morning, I don't trust her, I need witnesses to her conversation that aren't parents. We have a meeting set up for after half-term. We clearly can't wait that long.

I'm not prepared to take him back to an environment where he's excluded not included and where his needs are ignored and not met. I have promised ds that I won't let him be so unhappy and lonely at school as he was on Friday.

So I currently see that my only option in the immediate time is to remove him from school. Where do I stand legally on this? He's not 5 yet (5 at end of April). Can they have me hung drawn and quartered for refusing him an education? I am prepared to go and view other schools with a view to starting him after half term? I am also prepared to look seriously at HE for the next half term at least. I just don't know where I stand legally with it all. The last thing I need is a social worker on my doorstep over this.

You won't get a social worker - maybe the EWO who won't know what to do. Does he have a dx?

Whats a EWO? What powers do they have? Am I going to be faced with an even bigger battle than I'm already faced with?

Yes, he's dx deaf at birth, wears bilateral hearing aids, also has a number of health problems. There has never been a dx over the behaviour but there has always been challenging behaviour but its always been put down to the deafness.

Legally he doesn't have to be in full-time education until the term after he is 5 which your son isn't yet. If you are trying to get him statemented I am not sure what effect it would have on that though. May be worth speaking to SOS!SEN or IPSEA. May be worth speaking to your GP to see if they would be willing to issue a sicknote that school is too stressful for him at present?

EWO - education welfare officer - they investigate school absence. as your son isn't legally required to be in school yet I doubt it would trigger a visit and even if it did the law is very clear.

No don't worry. He's only 4 so they can't prosecute you anyway, but as he's registered with the LEA they will want to know what's happening. The EWO is the educational welfare officer but don't worry about that. I would go and see your GP and ask him/her to write you a note signing your child off school until a suitable placement is found as he's being put under so much stress by his school's inability to meet his needs. Poor little fella.

rebl, sorry to hear it's not going well. I'm sorry I can't remember if your ds has a statement. He is not compulsory school age yet so you can keep him out (did this with dd3 last year) but I would put all your reasons in a letter to the head, then at least they can't say you didn't inform them.

what he is not getting is inclusion, he is not being allowed access to his environment and curriculum as a child without sen would be so they are failing under the new equality act.

if he's not statemented then there shouldn't be a problem changing schools so long as there are places available and the school have a very different attitude! There's no reason why you can't go and look asap at any alternative schools.

have you been on to the ndcs about this? They are absolutely fab at kicking school ass!

He's not got a statement. We've just requested a statutory assessment though.

NDCS are very supportive and are coming to "kick the school's ass" as you put it bigcar at the meeting that has been called for after half-term.

NDCS are not aware of what has happened on Friday in terms of not being inclusive as I obviously haven't been able to inform them.

We need to get to that meeting though which means we need to tackle the immediate issue so I see that as this week only as the following week is half-term, then its an inset day so then we only have a day before the meeting.

How would it work with the SA if he's not attending a school? ie. we go through the SA and then when he's got appropriate support or at least his needs recognised officially even we he doesn't get a statement we then return him to school (but not necessarily the same school as now).

The draw back of him not being in school is the professional's won't get to observe him in the classroom. It depends on what recommendations they can make without it e.g. The professional who deals with Hearing Impairments can probably do a very good assessment and recommendation report, whereas the Ed Psych assessment and recommendations would probably be a lot stronger if they could observe him in school iyswim.

Has the LA agreed to do the SA yet? My instinct is for the LA to be pressured into getting the ed psych in ASAP and grit your teeth for that day and withdraw him again.

Rebl - don't know about the ins and outs of not being in school (may find out more soon as we are being referred to ESW ), but thinking about your meeting - have you been in touch with Parent Partnership?

From what I have read on MN they seem to vary very much from area to area, but ours has been fantastic. And I am sure you don't need a statement to access them. In fact we wish we had been in touch before we moved schools as they would have been a very good source of advice. They can be that extra person at a meeting which if they are proactive and can speak up for your rights is very helpful. Also means you have another witness to anything said.

Our PP is not great. They only have 2 people and will talk on the phone and advise but will not follow up. I called on Friday and left a message asking for an urgent call back.

GPs don't normally do sick notes for kids (unlike sick notes for work, which the NHS does). It's a parent's perogative to decide if a child is well enough for school or not, despite what schools might try to say. You might want to see the GP anyway though, both to log the anxiety and to see if they have any good ideas eg if a referral to CAMHS might help.

You're legally allowed to keep any under 5 off, as they don't have to be formally educated yet. And even at 5, the law obliges you only to ensure they receive a 'suitable education, whether by attendance at school or otherwise'. FWIW, schools often pressurise parents to provide a sick note even if the reason for absence wasn't really illness, as it looks better on their statistics.

If the child has an unauthorised absence for over 2 weeks, they have to start answering questions to the LA who may send an education welfare officer round.

If the child's absence is due to unmet SEN it doesn't look particularly good for the school... and it can be evidence to back up the need for a statement so don't be too ready to pigeonhole this as illness absence.

A 2 page letter has been now been written that makes it perfectly clear that this is not an illness absence but a SEN unmet need and non-inclusive absence.

I feel sick over all this. I know I need to do it but just writting the letter has made me ill, god knows how I'm going to feel actually handing it in and the subsequent conversation.

I know how you feel rebl, it's hard when you've been bought up to respect teachers and trust they know best. But, you know your child so much better than they do and in these circumstances no one else is going to fight for him. You have the meeting set up just tell them you will discuss everything then. Keep a record of everything that's said to you and where possible confirm to school in writing.

If you formally De-register him from the school, that may just motivate the school to do something for your son.

There is a date in January when the number of pupils on the school roll at that date decides how much funding they get.

There is a notice on the office door at ds3's school about under 5's. Legally they do not have to attend school until the term after they turn 5, so no problems there.
I would go and see every school within travelling distance ms and ss and see how they differ and if you find one that you feel can meet his needs, apply for a statement as well, you will then have an idea where you can send him whether he get the statement or not. It sounds to me like even if you got him statemented, this school would be rubbish, some schools just don't have the right attitude, my most local school is like this so I used to walk for 45mins to get my ds2 to a school that understood, and it was worth it.

No you mustn't take him out. You must make written records of ALL of your concerns and send them to the school asking them to be dealt with as a matter of urgency for the welfare of your child.

Produce lots of evidence of their failings. Get their responses. Pick holes in it.

When you get to the point where you have EVIDENCE of their failing him, only then must you write to them to explain that is why you are pulling him out.

I'm really sorry. It HAS to be done that way to secure satisfactory provision for him going forward and into the future.

This is the basis for your quality statement, your tribunal, your complaints, your MP's involvement etc etc., whatever tools you use to get your ds the provision he deserves.

On the other hand, if he is under five, the best option may be to de-register him from that school and write a letter to the Director of Education expressing your dis-satisfaction with that school.

Stark How much evidence do I need? This is the list since he started school just 5 weeks ago.

• Medicines not safetly stored, kept in the classroom by the childrens medicine bottles. Complaint to teacher ignored. Another child got hold of the medicines twice before formal complaint to ht. Complaint upheld and medicines moved to staffroom and proper logging system of administration put in place.
• DS escaped from school during lunchtime. Amount of time he was gone is unknown. Was found watching the cars and lorries going passed on the road. We were not informed, found out from dd and another pupil. Complaint to teacher ignored. Formal complaint logged with ht and gate was then locked. Complaint upheld.
• Reports from children that ds is reguarly hitting others. Verbal complaint to teacher ignored.
• More reports of hitting. Family support worker spoke with teacher and told behaviour not a problem.
• More reports of hitting. Note in book to teacher. Complaint ignored.
• More reports of hitting a particular child that sounded quite nasty. Verbal complaint to ta, complaint ignored.
• Children moved away from ds at the table so he's sitting away from the rest of the group. Totally non-inclusive. No communication from the school why this has been done.
• A significant number of parents personnally complaining to the school about my ds's behaviour. No communication to us from the school.

Isn't this enough?

Oops, the 1st point should say kept in classroom by the childrens water bottles [smiles].

You have this all in writing? Written responses by the school about them? Independent witness signitures for some of the other things?

The type of evidence you need is documentary.

You also need documentary evidence of YOUR attempt to resolve the issues. I.E bringing it to the attention of the school asap in each case. Being reasonable. Giving them reasonable time frames to resolve things. Asking them what their proposed solution is. Writing to clarify what was discussed in a meeting.

All that kind of thing. You need proof that you're not just saying all these things. You need the guarantee that the school can deny everything you say about them.

Didn't the teacher also refuse to use the home/school book and suggest the reading book be used instead? Going on your posts I am assuming they don't communicate via reading book either.

I have it all documented including letters from the school for all the formal complaints admitting that they were wrong (the medicines and the getting out of school complaints).

I have an action plan for inclusion signed by the school saying that he needs a home/school book. I have an empty home/school book (which is the reading book) apart from all my writings.

I also have an independant liason officer who has asked on a number of occasions for the book to be written in and been told that it can't be done every day. Its never been done.

I also have my dd's book (ds's twin) which is full of writing from the very same teacher on a daily basis.

Clearly my verbal conversations could all be denied which would mean that me bringing the behaviour of my ds towards a particular girl isn't documented.

I have 2 parents who witnessed ds hit another child.

I have 2 parents who have complained to the school about my ds's behaviour and successfully had their children removed away from my ds.

I have a photo on my phone showing the seating arrangements on Friday which clearly show he was seperated from the class.

Would all that be enough?

Yes. The two parents. Would they show you, give you a copy of their complaints? Sign something for you?

Remove him, document why to the school. Copy in the Chief Ed Officer in your County and attach a request for a SA.