how to stop/prevent frustration behaviour?

[BatBrainsPumpkinHead]

Ds is not a typcial child i wouldnt say he SN particularly just has strong tendancies in that direction. He isnt particularly nt either. Kinda in the no mans land in the middle.

One of the big things that we have to work with is his ability to deal with change and disappointment or frustrated. If he is disappointed or frustrated by one thing he cant process any further change/dissapointment/frustration. If any does occur he results to hitting himself in the head, punching walls, screaming, kicking, swearing, rudeness, abruptness and general chaos. This is an improvement on the biting and head bashing into floor/walls in frustration that he used to do when he was younger. Is there anything that i can do to help him learn to process the information and emotions to prevent/stop the behaviour outbursts from this?

he will eventually about what is upsetting him but needs to have calmed down before he can do so. This is a new thing and has taken a lot of work to get him to communicate this.

Or just some tricks to cope with the behaviour would help. I have struggled with the nonstop screaming three evenings in a row.

how old is he pumpkin and how much understanding dies he have ?

And there are things you can do :)

You can put in place emotions charts..Anger volcanos, Red and yellow card systems and my fave' a traffic light system.

All of these things combined can teach how to recognise emotions and give clear stratagies for them.

If you search under my name for traffic lights it should come up with a few lengthy posts on here about how we use them.. Shout if nothing comes up.

:)

We have used a coloured thermometer before to help with his emotions, but had stopped recently as it was inflamming the situation. As he was trying to manipulate it to work to his advantage. I wouldnt let him, situation then exploded.

He is nearly 6 and has good understanding of a lot of things. He can incorporate coping strategies really well so appears to have less SN issues than he actually does. he also has higher expectations of what he should be able to do/cope compared to what he is capable. It is this difference that i think is often the cause behind alot of the frustration. The recent frustration behaviour outbreak has been over homework. I put it on a different thread but can link if you feel it is relevant.

Okay this is a silly question.. Does he understand what he is feeling? or do you see him get frustrated and then go boom?..

Okay.. I'd stick with a red/ yellow card system.. But have the traffic lights in the background .. Which he can mark on the traffic light as to where he is feeling... But.. If he marks that he is on an Amber/ yellow... Then it is the rule that he follows the stratagy for the colour.. So for my ds it's ten mins of calm down activity that suits him.. Yellow is waaay before red which is angry.. Which is before the boom factor!

You get the red and yellow cards to use as parents when he does not recognise he is in a tiz.. so if he's doing homework and getting all stressed out.. And he doesn't remove himself to go and calm down ( this may be doing something calm or jumping the frustration out etc).. The you tell him to calm down for ten/ five minutes ( maybe get something to choose from a preagreed list that he has come up with).
This is bloody hard work.. Repeatative... And you have to be calm and just matter of fact..
If he tries to use a red or an aMber to manipulate.. You just tell him.. " I can't see your physical signs that you are feeling that way" .. But go calm down and I'll get you when your ready to return to what we are doing here."

the other thing to remember is that it is perfectly okay and reasonable to feel angry or frustrated... What makes it unreasonable is unacceptable or anti social or risky behaviour.. So it's about learning the better responses to the feelings.
And that can take ages! But it's worth it :)

He doesnt understand emotions at all. The confuse and bewilder him to be honest. Empathy is something he has no grasp of and despite trying to encourage it he sees no point in it.

I think it depends. Last year we had a problem with a music concert and he knew what the problem was but still exploded in a complete emotional outburst, all but emotional collapse tbh. Nearly pulled him from school for the duration of the event. He seems to have been bubbling and bubbling with this and has take a few days to explode before he can talk. I did expect this outburst and didnt see it coming. His outbursts can normally be predicted and warning signs can be there if you know you are looking for then as they are very stubtle clues. I honestly dont know if he knows what he is reacting when he is in the midst of reacting. I suspect possibly not but it is hard to tell as he is so caught up in the reaction that he cant communicate anything other then what he is in the midst of doing. iyswim.

I didnt expect this outburst..

He is thought to be boarderline aspergers if that is any help, but so boarderline as to make it hard to prove either way. He is also incredibly bright and logical, and very literal.

:) I wasn't going to say that he sounds like a little version of my ds and a lot of other dc's on this board!

It was the camhs behavioural therapist who put in the traffic lights for ds .. It's been a slog but we are seeing great progress ( ds is 11 btw and huge!).

He could jolly well not understand his own emotions and this can be really scary to him.
It is also very very common that asc/ as dc's do not remember what happens in the middle of a meltdown... And this is also scary!

an emotions chart works well.. Cut out pictures, or take photos of him pulling emotion faces or draw them.. In a column.. Write down what is body is doing .. So for anger maybe a tight tummy , scrunched shoulders and fast breathing... And I. The next column a stratagy for it.
Put in the physical responses as and when you see them.. Eg: when ds aS embarrased he didn't know what he was feeling ( he's now learnt to ask).. So we drew a picture, named the emotion, wrote down what his body was doing and wrote a stratagy.
remember the nice and happy emotions too :)

starlight will hate me .. Because I'm going to say visual time table and routine to you. This can help some children cope with change.

Putting these things in place will do no harm if he is NT either.. We use them with dd (7 &NT).. Although tbh she quite likes to play the game rather than actually need it.. However I am quite happy to pull a red or yellow card on her.. And on ds1( 15&NT)... When he's being a stroppy teen and going " rahhh" instead of communicating!

A child I know has these breakdowns. He is ASD. 2 years older than your ds. It is in a group situation. With competitive games. He gets fixed ideas that someone mistreated him, was rude to him etc. We (the helpers) have learnt not to reason with him but to

1. listen (but not too long) calmly
2. show no displeasure or irritation at his outburst - to keep the temperature low and not further inflame situation by telling him off
3. quite lightly but positively encourage him to join in again, or remove him from the situation and give him an alternative occupation. No pressure is applied. No lengthy discussions. No arguing. He often forgets why he was in a rage and goes back into the group again, once he finds his equilibrium.

He is a sweet little boy. And most of the time extremely well behaved, better than most of the so-called normal children there. His tantrums are triggered by feeling picked on, or sensory overload, or wanting something so badly (like to win) that he can't cope with failure.

We stopped anything timetable as he got so obessive with it it was a big problem. We stick to routine as much a possible but it is hard as i am ADHD and struggle with routine. Same things same times (approximately) with some room for impulsiveness so suit me (try to do it when it wont affect his routine). Might try tighter scheduling/structuring after school as i try to let him have time to be a child and just be. It might be he needs a bit more structure then the average child. Hard to balance as he struggles with free play and have been trying to encourage it.

I like the idea of the picture/emotion work. This i think could be really good for him. Will try the traffic light system as it is what he had at school last year. Will speak to him tomo before he goes to his dad's and then employ next week.

Also speaking to his teacher to see if we can sort out the problem that triggered this - not enough homework and obsessing over needing homework.

Thank you! You have not only given me stategies to approach this but clarifies my understanding behind what is going on. I suspect that when he start to grasp and understand/rationalise it we may well see progress. first the hardest step, the groundwork to help his grasp this. this is going to push my skills to the limit. Your advice has been invaluable. thanks.

I may add he is not my child, so it easier for us to be very calm when dealing with him.

From what I see of this child also he loves structure. Not rigid discipline, just knowing what happens when and what sort of response he will get when he does things, rather than having to work out for himself how you are feeling what you want from him.

My own ds is much the same in that respect. He loves knowing what is expected of him, as long as it is a rational expectation (not out of his power to fulfil) He does his piano practice despite never havng been a particularily musical child because he loves the idea of "his piano practice". He loves his piano lessons, and moving onto the next piece in the book. He loves putting a star on the chart for making his bed. Stickers for good deeds. He will scream and rant if you impose what to him is some new impossible goal, or move the goal posts. He is not a tangental thinker. That's my lovely ds2. He doesn't think sideways.

Possibly what is happening with you and your ds you are a much more creative "flash" thinker and that is a difference between you two.

it is very possible swan but he is a very creative thinker when it comes to things to do/loopholes/how things work. but he is always logical in his thought process so you can see how he has got there. iyswim.

This statement really stood out to me "sensory overload, or wanting something so badly (like to win) that he can't cope with failure." this is more or less the crook of the situation.

I have been very short tempered recently due to being ill and over tired. This wont have helped. So the weekend apart will give us both time to calm down. ex impossed an early night on him tonight for his bad behaviour this morning, which i respected. Ex is carrying over the screen ban if ds' behaviour hasnt improved enough to earn the right to have it back by the time he goes there. So he is getting consistancy and we are working as a team thank fully. Will speak to him about doing some emotion reading/identifying type work with ds when he has him.

Thank you.

Hi Bat. Can't improve on the good advice given here, but just want to send my sympathies and say that it sounds very similar to my own (older) son (assessed for AS twice and not diagnosed, but shares many of the characteristics). To give you hope in the long term, my son has gradually learnt to deal with his own character and definitely has more self control now. At 6, life was a big struggle for him and us. Now he's 11, he seems to have learnt some strategies to cope.

Do you have a good SENCO at the school who could help you? The thing that really helped us in the end was the school, CAMHS and us all working together. Also rang the NAS (National Autistic Society) helpline for advice - they are very knowledgeable and helpful about this sort of behaviour and may be able to throw some light on why it is happening.

Also, if you had the traffic light system in place at school last year, why is it not still in place now? Sounds as if it helped. Perhaps you could get his new teacher to use it too.

Hope things improve. Make sure you get as much support as you can!

It was a general behaviour things used with all the kids. i have no idea what is used this year. but then his academic side is being stretch and he is in his element when he is learning. Its home which is the problem. Everything comes out at home and school sees nothing. Learnt delayed response I think the difference is that the traffic light system was behaviour linked not emotional behaviour linked iyswim.

Ds and i have talked about the traffic light thing this morning and he seems enthusiastic about it. telling me what we need to use it etc. So this will be put into place. He is better for having slept the whole night too.

Are there good resources for body posture awarenes wrt different emotions. where should i be looking?

swan can you explain you statement re flash thinking please. I am not sure i am interrupting it how you mean.

Batbrains, I am not trained but I meant that ideas come to me and possibly you like epiphanies, impulsive flashes of light, and they might come to my ds like a train journey with many junctions and interchanges, fascinating and intricate but sort of logical. Anyway I may be getting my metaphors a bit tangled up here. Off on some Errands - hope your day goes well.

Ok, I didnt need to ask to speak to his teacher after school. She needed to speak to me as they have been having problems in school too. She has observed that he seems to have good weeks and bad weeks. This last week they have had problems with him behaving inappropriatly with his hands and feet at mat time. (teacher speak for he has been kicking/pushing/poking etc). I explained about the behaviour that had been happening at home.
Raised the issue about him not processing emotions and that his inability to process and read them being a possible cause behind it. She is going to keep an eye on it. As a young teacher she is very on the ball and is very keen that we work together and i keep her in touch with the techniques we use.

Her view is that 1. traffic light system will be very good for him. 2. Emotion awareness training is something that she can do in class subtly.

Wrt homework - we both agree he shouldnt be getting more. She says because of his academic ability it is hard to remember he is one of the youngest in the class. I raised the point about him also forgetting this point and that this could be part of the problem that is unsettling him making his ability to cope to anything else less.
We're going to try him bringing in his space stuff so she can look at it and if this doesnt work a small research type thing that is connected to in class work.

She is going to speak to the school's specialist re the frustration head hitting.
I am relieved as we are working together and she isnt currently giving me the "PFB syndrome mother" looks and attitude that i got from his previous teacher.

Plan of action here: research some pictures of emotions for talking about as a starting point.

Thank you all. Feeling much better about the situation. Hope you all have weekends that arent too stressful!

Bat - not sure re questions for the paediatrician as such, but definitely take along any reports you may have had in the past (ed. psych, IEPs etc). Would it be possible to speak to your school SENCO before the appointment as you might be able to sort out a bit the questions which need answering? Also, if you think that there might be family characteristics inherited (I know I can see some of my DS's tendencies in me and DH). Prepare a list of all the things you decide to say, so you don't forget anything. Good luck!

bat not sure I have anything useful whatsoever to add.....though that in itself is perfectly usual . rambling as per the norm! I would however second what mrsd said about the senco, might give you some ideas to go forward with.