Help with SALT percentiles please

[Claw3]

In the middle of writing for Reasons for appeal and latest SALT has just dropped through my letterbox. I need some help with percentiles please.

understanding of spoken language Subtest 'word classes' Ds achieved a percentile score of 0.4 for comprehension and 2 for expression. This is very low right?

Also vocabulary Renefrew word finding picture test. Age Equivalent 4.6 years old (ds is 6.6) this is very low too right?

Its just the only recommendation that SALT has made is a story social to address his anxiety levels during the assessment and he became increasing anxious during the assessment and his vocal tic and hand flapping started.

Have i got my percentiles in a muddle of this SALT bloody bonkers?

What test was it do you know.

I would interpret it the same as you, and yes would agree that social stories are a bit of a bonkers recommendation for someone with very low comprehension.

You could 'possibly' do social stories with pictures, or photographs of your ds.

But I don't know really. I don't do social stories on account of ds having no chance of making sense of them.

Yes they are low! A 2percentile means take 100 children and 1 would be worse than your DS and 98 would be better.

I get the impression that the SALT probably thought your DS would do better in a 'normal' situation, but being anxious they didn't show off their skills as well as they could do. So if the anxiety could be reduced then on re-testing he may do better. Presumably though that wouldn't be tens of percentiles better so they should have been able to give more help than that .

Clinical evaluation of Language Fundamentals - 4UK, subtest 'word classes' to assess a child's ability to make links, to categorise words that are related or words that are unrelated by semantic class, opposites, spatial or temporal features. 0.4 for comprehension and 2 for expression.

He had similar test done about 9 months ago, i think. Do these 2 tests sound similar to the above?

"subtest verbal similarites. Presented with three words representing both things and/or abstract concepts. Ds was asked each time to state how they are similar or go together.

Subtest word definitions. Ds was presented with individual words and asked to explain their meaning.

If so there is a massive discrepancy.

Renfrew word finding picture vocabulary test in which ds was asked to name pictures. 4.6years. He had exactly the same test done 9 months ago and he was only 6 months behind. He is now 2 years!

Those centiles are really low. Very possibly partly due to anxiety, but then that probably reflects the situations in which he's usually having to perform. Social stories might help the anxiety a bit but the scores show 4th lowest comprehension in 1000 kids. 2nd lowest expression in 100 kids. Age related scores show lag below peers increasing rather than decreasing, and probably a deterioration in absolute score.

On the plus side, it would be very, very hard for the LA to refuse increased input now, esp. if the deficits are relatively isolated (they find it easier to try & write off GDD/MLD dc with 'what do you expect'). Since the report doesn't state the significance of this test & which are the most appropriate strategies, you need to try & figure it out. Maybe moondog might be along soon?

Sometimes I despair of professionals. If SALT does the test, surely they should know how to apply the results (or at least be able to ask someone who does!). As for social stories.... they'd need to be very visual and pitched very simply. Imagine being given a social story in a foreign language you have little knowledge of, and you'll have the idea.

Thanks Mariagoretti, i just wish the SALT would stick to what she does and make SALT recommendations!

We are way past social stories for ds, he has weekly therapy at CAMHS and self harms.

Im trying to work out whether the tests where he scored on 0.4 and 2 are very similar to the test EP did 9 months ago.

EP did British Ability Scales 11 psychometric test (BAS 11)

EP subtest verbal similarities. Presented with three words, ds was asked to explain how they are similar or grouped together. for example rectangle, hexagon and circle are shapes.

SALT subtest says in brackets (identifying which 2 items went together from a choice of 3) he scored 0.4. expression (giving explanations for his answers) scored 2.

If they are similar ds shows a massive regression, he scored on 87th centile with EP test. Or am i wasting my time trying to connect the tests as they are not the same?

Don't think they're directly comparable... but clearly there is some overlap. 78th v. 2nd centile: that's a massive discrepancy. Could it be partly explained as performance under ideal v typical conditions? The difference in the repeat Renfrew picture vocabulary test shows something is going on with performance ie it's not just a test-related issue

to me, being able to use CAMHS counselling means that comprehension may be better than the 0.4th. But some practitioners are so skilled they can communicate v effectively with a massive range of dc.

I dont think so, when EP assessed him we had just spend 6 hours travelling, was in a unfamiliar place, he was smothered in sores from injuring himself and was hospitalised 2 days later for the sores, conditions couldnt have been much worse!

All of his therapy is done through play, so he communicates through play, not words. Although he can chat for England when he wants to!

I think that perhaps he literally didnt know what was expected of him. At one test, which i observed, the therapist had to actually extensively demonstrate to him what she wanted him to do. Once he understood what she wanted him to do, he flew through it.

Still i suppose that is why he scored 0.4, because he could not comprehend her verbal instructions in the first place. If she demonstrated, it wouldnt have been a verbal test, would it!

I will stop trying to analysis it and just use it in my reasons!

Thanks for your help.