Another wobble cushion question

[moosemama]

Ds has BIG issues with sitting still in class - think bottom on floor, elbows on chair etc etc.

Lovely inclusion lady has been in and observed him in action and one of her (many) recommendations was to try a wobble cushion/wedge.

Teacher has tried him with one for a couple of days. (She borrowed it from another child who doesn't do a full week and the Head said if it helps he will buy one for ds.) Unfortunately, she feels that it didn't really help, as he was still sliding off his seat - so that his bottom was no longer on the cushion, and wriggling a lot.

Now as I understood it, based on converstations with various people and the inclusion lady, the thinking is that ds's core strength is a problem and the cushion would go some small way towards helping with this while we wait for his OT assessment to come up and do other 'fitness' related stuff in the meantime'

Am I right in thinking that just because we haven't seen an instant improvement, doesn't mean the cushion isn't for him? Surely, if he needs to build his core strength, he will need to use it for a few weeks and then review whether or not there has been an improvement?

Alternatively, would a sitfit type round cusion be a better option, if he is sliding off the wedge? Has anyone had any success with the round rather than wedge shaped cushions?

I have read some of the older wobble cushion related threads and it does seem that quite a few people saw fairly instant results, so maybe the teacher is right and it just isn't going to work for ds.

my ds has autism and uses wobble cushions, weve found it doesnt overly help on chairs but helps on the floor, even so it didnt help instantly it took some getting used to oer i think about a fortnight or so i guess for him, personally i agree a few days is too early to tell, try a bit more? or could the ot assessment be brought forward if school hassle ot!? we have a round one with bump things on one side and smoother on other but school are buying him a different one apparently that fits beter on a chair!? dunno what though!

I think that there suit more than one purpose. Partly physical to strength the core and develop proprioception (body awareness) and also to simulate the fidgetting and provide sensory input without the need for the child actually to fidget and becoem distracted by it, allowing them to focus more on what is happening in the lesson. However it could simply be that the novelty of trying this is why he isn't showing improvement yet. Personally I'd ask them to try it for longer.

I don't think the wobble cushion will really help to build core strength. I think once your child learns to use it you should see an instant reduction is his movement during class.

It certainly works for my son.... I believe fairly instantly.

DS1 uses a round cushion (sit-o-disc) at the dinner table at home. The improvement in his posture and ability to sit still on that was instantaneous, though he doesn't have any problems with core strength, more with constant movement.

Thank you so much for all your replies.

Hmm, not sure what to think really. Instinct tells me that they need to give it a bit longer before they decide its not working.

I asked him about it this morning and he said he just slides off it. Its the Move n Sit wedge they are trying him with at the moment.

Indigo, does he need someone to show/teach him how to use it rather than just being given it to sit on? His teacher seemed to think she could just get him to park his bottom on it and it should work if it was going to iyswim.

She says he seems to naturally want to pitch forward and lean on the desk when he has to write, so the wedge just tips him even further forwards. Generally, when he isn't writing, he seems to need to hold himself up with his arm, so is sort of leaning back holding himself up with one arm, which then gets tired so he shifts his position, same thing happens to the other arm and so on. End result being that he is never still in his seat. He never sits when he can lean and never leans when he can lie down iyswim. If he has nothing to lean against he will either lie down if possible or squat on his haunches (he even squats with his feet on the toilet seat ).

We received the observation report from the inclusion lady this week and it was quite hard reading. Obviously I know he's a wriggler and sitting to a table is a problem for him, but I had no idea how bad he is in class. Quite frankly I can't believe none of his previous teachers have ever raised it as an issue (he's in Year 4 now). He does wriggle about and hold himself up etc at home with me when we are doing homework and eating etc, but he's nowhere near that bad, which leaves me wondering whether there's an element of sensory stuff to do with his class environment involved.

Incredibly, despite apparently being in constant motion and not being at all engaged in the lesson, when his teacher cued him in and asked him a direct question, he knew the answer straight away. So he is taking stuff in, but not fully engaging himself with what's going on. I guess that's how he's always been able to pass tests and achieve good overall results.

Apparently he regularly spends time kneeling on the floor with his elbows on the chair and forehead on the back of the chair. He slides on an off the seat under the table, kneels up, crouches on his feet and is in constant motion. He also fiddles and taps all the time and constantly drops his pencil - or worse, ends up flicking it across the room. She observed him for 45 minutes and the amount of movement she recorded was unbelievable. Its a miracle he achieves anything with all that going on.

Both the school and ourselves completed the Conners scale for him last term and he came out as definitely not ADHD. I don't know a lot about ADHD, but that did feel right to me at the time, as he has an incredible ability to concentrate if the environment is right and he is interested in the work. He can lose himself in a book for hours on end. I assume he would be unlikely to be able to do this if he had ADHD, but like I said I don't really know anything about it.

The inclusion lady has referred him to the ASD Inclusion Team and said she felt that the preliminary ASD dx seemed appropriate from the little she observed of him, but that he also presents as pretty dyspraxic, which is something that has been suggested before.

I really think we need to come up with something to help him be more comfortable and settled in class, but if the wobble cushion doesn't work, I't at a bit of a loss to know what else we could try.

His teacher wondered if a 'kneeling chairs/stool' might be an option if he has the need to pitch forwards anyway, but I'm not convinced.

I am stumped really. Tried to google a bit last night, but drew a blank. Guess perhaps I am just going to have to be guided by the 'experts' on this one.

I would be really grateful for anyone else's thoughts or ideas on anything else we could try, or things that have worked for other children.

We use a round air filled wobble cushion which has bumps/ soft spikes on for ds2.. You can pump it up so it's firmer to create more wobble.. Or if it's softer it has less wobble.. we use it forcire stability and sensory input... Which decreases the fidget factor.
I wonder if this might stop your ds sliding forward ?
( particularly if it was on the sifter side).
He uses this and a gym ball at home.. But will sit on his foot at school so he doesn't have to carry the cushion about with him to each class.

It might be worth getting one for home use.. Ds uses his at the dinner table, computer on the floor and on the sofa ( don't ask :)) he watches tv and goes on the gym ball when he plays on the xbox.. And generally rolls about on it.
The cushion had an instand effect on him.. Where as the gymball has taken sometime.. He still bends in the wrong places ( hunches the top of his back).. And does the slidey thing.. But he is improving.

I wonder if giving a few different things a try at home might be worth a go..
Got the wobble cushion from amazon for about £15-16 .. And the gymball was passed on to us because it was one of those .. I think that wouldbe a good get fit gadget that was never used.. ( I reckon you'll know someone who has a gymball hidden away).

There was another thread this week about a gymball chair thing.. That looks very very good!

Please excuse all the typos.. :)

My DS uses a wobble cushion at school on floor - one at home, although not so good on seats, and a wobble board for core strength. he is getting better at the wobble board - but no instant result! Wii fit with some of their games is quite good for core strength - makes it a bit more fun too.

I'm writing this sitting on my own wobble cushion. I actually bought if off ebay to help with my bad back. My DD who has ASD had one at school but ended up stabbing it with a pair of scissors because she hated it so much. So it doesn't always work for some people. Just form my own experience I would say that it would feel unnatural for a child and they would need some getting used to it. If you can afford it maybe buy one yourself they aren't that expensive. I think I paid £15/£20 for it.

The idea of it is that you keep moving, then no part of you gets overly tired. So with a bad back it stops me sitting in one position for too long and that area then starting to ache. It does improve core stability as you are forced to hold your tummy in. But this may need to be taught to a child

I would recommend getting an OT to do some work with him and see if they would recommend it for him. Best thing for my daughter and her concentration and constant fiddling was the OT they did a sensory diet for her and she sits really well in class now. She does exercises for 15 minutes before lessons start and then again 15 mins before afternoon lessons. This helps her concentration and to develop her weak areas. For instance she couldn't throw a ball or skip, now we play netball in the garden and she can skip forwards and backwards 100 times.

Inclusion people are often just going through lists of items they have heard work for some children but may not be good for yours. Also you if you do go down the OT route make sure it is a good one who understands sensory intergration.

Hope this helps and keep on battling.

Hi Arsenic. That's interesting. My Mum has a sitfit which she has just dropped off for him to try over the weekend. Its a round wobble cushion but doesn't have the knobbly bits. We will give it a go, but I think the bumps and spikes would be what made the difference for ds in terms of his sensory seeking wriggles. Ds2 is currently sitting really nicely on it in the middle of the floor whilst watching tv. (Ds1 isn't home until later today.)

I actually do have a gym ball - well a pregnancy ball, but they're pretty much the same thing aren't they? Thinking about it, he loved rolling around sitting on it when I was pg with dd.

I saw those gymball chairs on a website last night. They look like they would take up a lot of space with the frame and wheels as well as the ball iyswim.

Auntevil. I bought him an electronic wobble board with different skill level challenges to use in the summer holidays and he astounded us by being really good at it pretty much straight away. Totally bedfuddled me to be honest, as being good on a wobble board just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of his profile. He loves it though and uses it regularly - even caught him on it before school yesterday morning.

Same thing happened a few years ago (year 1) when a local basketball coach came into the school to work with ds's class. She asked to see us at the end of the day and I assumed she was going to ask whether we had had him assessed for dyspraxia - but no! She wanted to tell us he was a natural and his overarm throw was incredible for a boy of his age. She said he was too young to join a club, as you can't start until you're 8, but that we should sign him up as soon as we could. Unfortunately for ds, he is really small for his age and has since found that the other players tower over him and he gets knocked over all the time. They played a bit of basketball in school last year and it really knocked his confidence, as he couldn't even get near the net.

daisysue2, we are currently on an extremely long waiting list for an OT assessment and have been told its quite possible that his multi-dip assessment (which we will have been waiting 18 months for by the time it happens and is expected to be next April) will happen first! I'd love to go private and try and find an OT with sensory integration, but there's just no way we can afford it at the moment.

Sorry for being dim, but what is a sensory diet? Is that what the 15 minute exercises are? Sort of short bursts of exercise, or am I way off the mark. Might nip off and google it actually.

Yes that's it in her 15 mins my daughter does some skipping, ball throwing, deep pressure such as pulling a rubber band (the type you do exercises with). These programmes are actually really easy to do yourself. Maybe google exercises for sensory intergration and see if anyone has a list of exercises to do. I have about five pages of them which I we pick two out of three sections to do and they work together.

Google the sensory smart child in walton surrey they have a good section on what is sensory integration under resources which gives a good explanation.

Generally NHS OTs don't provide this kind of therapy. My DD was seen twice by the NHS and they didn't do much for her.

There is another post today under " sensory processing disorder and low self esteem". Lots of really good ideas there to help with a ideas for a sensory diet. Have a look.

Thanks daisysue2. Have nipped into the other thread. Will read properly later.

Will also do some googling once I have everyone safely tucked up in bed.

I'm not holding out much hope for the NHS OT. I have heard that sensory trained OTs on the NHS are a bit like hen's teeth, but am always willing to be pleasantly surprised.

I'm really holding out for my dh to get a nice juicy bit of freelance work, so we can fund a sensory OT ourselves, but it will have to wait a few months at least. Well its either that or winning the lottery.

Even just one or two sessions where they can write out a plan for you if you can't do it yourself. You don't necessarily need more than that if you are prepared to put the work in yourself. Then just go back for a review once every term say. I pay around £65 per session not cheap but couldn't have done without it.

Moose have you thought about a bibic assessment?
It won't be a dx at all but they could jolly well help.
We have ds going up there soon ( ish).. To help with his sensory issues :)

daisysue2, that's interesting. I thought it would be more expensive than that and would need to be weekly or at least bi-weekly to be effective. Food for thought there. How would I go about finding a sensory trained OT though? Sorry for all the questions.

Arsenic, I have read their website and thought about it, especially as I don't really care about the dx per se, I just want ds to get the help and support he needs. Mum even offered to pay, but something keeps stopping me making the call. I think its the thought of organising a trip there with accommodation for us and ds1, childcare for the other two dcs, dog sitters for one dog and kennels for the other two etc, it just seems like a huge, complicated undertaking. If only they were just around the corner. Not an excuse though is it really - perhaps I should be kicking my own bum as well as the schools!

Well they have quite a waiting list at the moment.. so itmight be worth contacting them now and letting it be something running in the background.

Thanks, will discuss it with dh this weekend and perhaps try and brave a phonecall early next week.

Well, we have had him sitting on my Mum's adult sized sitfit all weekend and ... the difference is quite amazing. He sits to write or eat with his back pretty much straight and his feet under the table!

Needless to say I have ordered a child sitfit plus for him on next day delivery. Am really hoping it works as well for him at school. Although he did tell me this morning that the wedge cushion attracted a lot of attention and questions from the other children and he found it all very embarassing. So difficult when he is at the age where he just wants to be like everyone else.

Unfortunately, we got the letter on Saturday that said he has been accepted onto the waiting list, but it will be at least 12 months until he gets to see an OT. (Although he will have some OT asessments as part of his multi-dip next April.) We are considering borrowing the money from Mum to go private, but its a toughie because we are on a tight budget and trying hard to get debt free and this will be yet more borrowing.

We have to do something though. He has just told me how much he is struggling at swimming. Apparently he just can't hold his own body up in the water at all and today he had a different teacher who didn't realise how hard he finds it, so expected too much of him. He is pretty down about being the worst swimmer in his year, even the other non-swimmers are streaks ahead of him now - in just four weeks.

This thread has just reminded me to discuss the possiblity of bibic with dh as well. Better write it on my ever extending to do list or I will just forget again.

Moose.. Glad you found a cushion that works for him :)

ds2 uses his cushion at home.. But he is at a ms secondary school .. So the practicalities aren't great ( moves classrooms for each lesson and would have to carry it about).. And it would draw attention...
Behavioural therapist suggested to me ds and the school that he sits on his feet/foot.. As it will still give him the active sitting thing!
Might be worth a try?

With swimming I know a friend takes her ds to the local pool a couple of times a week to do his physio ( some of this is core strength).. He uses a spagetti float thing and a light weight air filled ball.. I wonder if these might be googleable?

Thanks TACC.

He already sits on his feet for preference. I spent years telling him "bottom on chair, feet under the table" over and over again every meal time before I realised he really needed to sit on his feet.

At school he doesn't really sit at all though. He changes position from sitting, to kneeling, to squatting, to leaning on the seat of the chair with his elbows, to lying/sliding down the chair etc etc on and on and on every couple of seconds - literally.

I sat on Mum's sitfit to chop the veg for tea this evening and was very impressed at how comfortable it was. I've had a mysterious pain in my left ribs for almost a year now and they definitely felt better on the cushion than they do on a normal kitchen chair.

I was wondering whether pilates would help him. Just a thought, but Mum has a private pilates trainer two or three times a week and I thought it might be worth asking her if she would be willing to try working with ds as well. Mum has offered before, she is already paying and the lessons wouldn't cost any more if ds joined in.

I'm thinking we may have to pay for some extra 1-2-1 swimming lessons so. I really don't want him going on that flipping outwards bounds weekend if he can't swim by then.

Its so frustrating being broke, it feels like everything ds needs is beyond our financial reach and then I feel like I'm letting him down by not being able to provide it all for him.

Well, just spoke with ds1's maths teacher, who by coincidence is their swimming supervisor as well.

I actually went to talk to him about the swimming stuff, which was interesting in itself, but he also told me that he thinks there has been a significant improvement in Patrick since he started sitting on the move n sit. He said he's definitely wriggling less and when he came to mark his classwork today he was pleasantly surprised by the improvement in both quality and quantity.

Also, Mum's pilates teacher has agreed to to an intensive course with him over half term and show me how to keep up the exercises with him with just the odd session with her from then on. We have five sessions booked over seven days and Mum and I have to teach him the correct breathing technique and basic/core (?) position before he starts.

So all in all a better day today. Blimey its like a roller-coaster round here with regards to ds1 at the moment. So many ups and downs its hard to keep up, not to mention emotionally draining.

Pilates is a very good idea. It should help a lot.

Please report back how it goes....

I'm a teacher trying to decide on cushions and wedges etc. to support some of the children in my class as so many have specific needs. These needs are often overlooked as teachers are in no way properly trained to understand and cater for such variety. It's frustrating to see other teachers and assistants just dismiss these needs due to their own lack of knowledge. Anyway it's really really helpful to get such insight from you all as it will help me meet their needs so I just wanted to say thank you. I spend a lot of time talking to my kids' parents but it's never enough time and we are very limited financially so I wasn't too make the right purchases.

*want to make the right purchases.