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If teacher can't see any behaviours with DS, school nurse certainly did this morning!!

9 replies

genieinabottle · 01/10/2010 12:07

DS (dx of asd) is in ms reception.
Some of you may have read my other thread about school not seeing/recognizing his problems, and writing on his school contact book that all is fine. And then when DS gets home, we have the fallout with his behaviours being awful. Sad

Anyway, went into class earlier to fetch him to see the school nurse for his school entry check-up.
I saw straight away that he was having a little moment and didn't want the pear he had chosen or been given for snack, but he wasn't talking to TA, he was making grunting noises while holding the pear, she asked him to put the pear in the bin, but DS put it back in the fruit basket then saw me and started having a hissy fit 'coz he was rattled to see me in the classroom.

Unhappily and grudgingly he followed me to the school nurse's room and stood there staring at the floor while smacking hard the side of his leg with his fist.
It took a fair few minutes to get him to co-operate and to take his shoes off to be weighted and measured. When she tried doing the audio test for THE hearing check, she gave up after 5 mins of me and her trying to explain to DS that he had to either clap his hands or make a thumbs up sign when he heard the noise. DS just couldn't comprehend what he had to do and sat there staring blankly.

So he will have another test in June when hopefully his understanding might have improved.
School nurse said if there is anything with his behaviours that we struggle with at home, to contact her and she will help with refearal. She was quite nice really.

Back to classrom DS sat down in his usual corner, as they were watching a video, and he ignored me totally as i said goodbye, he kept his back turned and never waved or looked at me as i left. Sad

In the 15-20 minutes that i was there i saw lots of behaviours and issues, but teacher seems to see nothing wrong with DS. Hmm

OP posts:
pucca · 01/10/2010 12:10

Genie...As you have read my recent thread you know I totally get your point regarding this.

My ds does things exactly like you have just described, It is total craziness that the teachers do not see this!

So you have my complete sympathy.

Maybe all of us that have these problems need to stage a "sit in" and demand we go into school and observe and point out to these teachers!

genieinabottle · 01/10/2010 12:15

"Maybe all of us that have these problems need to stage a "sit in" and demand we go into school and observe and point out to these teachers!"

That sounds like an idea! Wink

It's so frustrating isn't it! arghhhh!!!

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/10/2010 13:43

Hi genie,

Is this nurse aware that your DS already has an ASD dx?. Can she get on side now?. As for doing another test next June (!) this is just not acceptable at all.

I think a lot of this has come about now primarily because school is not meeting his needs in any way, shape or form. Even with a Statement in place (and I would urge you to apply asap if you have not already done so) this particular school may not ultimately be the right environment for him.

:( for both you and your DS here cos he sounds like a bonny lad. As I have mentioned to you before this type of crap will keep happening because this school cannot or will not meet his additional needs.
Your DS is likely internalising all his frustrations re the school day so school don't or won't see it. The frustrations of course spill out when child gets home.

I've just seen your comment to me from the othe other day so will respond to it here. If school can't or more likely won't see the issues then go over their head and apply for the statement yourself without their tacit support (also you can name another school if the LEA agree to assess). You do not need their permission to do this. I'll hold your hhand through the process as well!!.

woolytree · 01/10/2010 18:22

We should start a group for protests at this rate!..Grin I do feel it it down to poor training/knowledge of ASD.

www.autism.org.uk/working-with/education/educational-professionals-in-schools/resources-for-teachers/autism-spectrum-disorders-a-resource-pack-for-school-staff.aspx

....Take this with you! :)...highlighted! Grin

I was handed paperwork at school today for the nurse, last time the assesment clinic tried to weigh DD she screamed and refused. Hmm. My DDs teacher was attemting to be nice today and actually wrote in her home school diary!!!!.....nothing to do with the presence of the incusion teacher, all day :)...or probably being told of my SENCO meeting next week...with the head of our inclusion service! MWHAHAHAHA! Grin

Lougle · 01/10/2010 18:56

Genie, my post might get a bit long, but stick with it Smile

Imagine you go to see a football game. You settle down to watch, and you expect to see a good game.

Suddenly you see a player picking up the ball - a definite foul. Yet, the referee says nothing.

Then, as the game continues, a player from the opposing team barges the one with the ball, again - a definite foul. Yet, the referee says nothing, and the crowd are cheering!

Once again, you are confused, and by now you are a little outraged.

The players are all over each other, barging, pushing, holding the ball and running. But the referee still doesn't intervene.

It isn't fair, it isn't right. They aren't following the rules. You just can't understand why they aren't doing anything about it, why they are letting it go on.

Suddenly, you realise that the game you are watching is Rugby, not Football. It all makes sense.

Probably a weird analogy, but you are watching a different 'game' than the teachers.

See your DS's actions from the teachers point of view:

She has a class of 30 children. She has a curriculum to get through, a class with wildly different abilities who all need to reach the same goal at the end of the year. Her target is 'end of year R' - they will all move on then.

So, lets see her day.

MasterGenie sits for snack time. He doesn't seem to like pear. He doesn't cause a fuss, but he makes it clear that pear is not his favourite thing. Fair enough, you can't like everything

He sees his Mum, and is unsettled, not surprising, he's young, just starting school it doesn't cause a problem for the class.

He leaves with Mum, doesn't really want to go not surprising, he was settled in the classroom.

He comes back settles quickly and quietly to the video he is not unduly disturbed by Mum leaving.

Now, you and I know that the reason he behaved in that way, was because he has ASD. But if he isn't causing a problem for the teacher, and he isn't disrupting the class, then disliking a pear or not waving good bye to Mum isn't a problem.

The real difficulty is that the social disengagement will hold him back from progress later, but right now, as long as he is 'passive' and grudgingly co-operative at school, it won't be seen as a problem for them.

You need to realise that this is Rugby, not Football. You can't walk into a Rugby game and say 'but their not following the football rules'.

You need to try and stop getting the teacher to see "ASD issues" - he has his dx. You know he has ASD. You know that the ASD causes him problems and difficulties. You have it in writing, and you don't need more proof than that.

What you need to be getting the teacher to see is "Educational Needs". So, you need to start getting evidence of how his ASD issues result in Educational Issues.

So why was it an educational issue that he didn't want his pear? You could say it was that he didn't make an appropriate choice in the first place; perhaps he doesn't like pear, so should never have been choosing pear, and needs help to make appropriate choices.

Why was it a problem that he put the pear in the fruit bowl, not the bin? Perhaps it was because he didn't understand the instruction, and that will cause him problems with whole class directed tasks. Perhaps he needs someone to personalise the instruction?

Why was it a problem that he sat in his usual corner? Perhaps it is because he is displaying rigidity, and that will cause him problems when another child chooses that corner? Perhaps he needs someone to spot rigid behaviours and encourage flexibility?

Why was it a problem that he didn't say goodbye to you or acknowledge you? Perhaps it was because he is passive and disengages from difficult social situations. Perhaps he needs support to encourage his engagement in social situations. Perhaps he needs someone to engineer small-scale social opportunities that he can then expand on?

Do you see what I am saying? It isn't enough to say 'did you see what he did then?' You have to be able to take it to the next level, which is what makes it a problem in educational terms.

Then, the school will have to act.

You must apply for a statutory assessment. You simply must. Nothing is going to change without it.

genieinabottle · 01/10/2010 23:05

Thank you for your replies.

Lougle, you are perfectly right Smile.
Like you said now he has his dx, i should focus about how the ASD is affecting his learning.

I guess i worry that if teacher sees no issues, the little support he does have will stop.

But like you said: "What you need to be getting the teacher to see is "Educational Needs". So, you need to start getting evidence of how his ASD issues result in Educational Issues."

The abandoned hearing test this morning was a prime example. Partly because DS was stressed because he had to see the school nurse and that was a change to his usual routine, and partly because of the difficulties the ASD and the speech and lang.disorder cause with his understanding, he simply wasn't able to perform the test which was fairly simple, no matter how much explanation and demonstration he was getting.
And school nurse wrote on the paperwork, "DS was confused and could not comprehend the audio test".
School nurse was aware of his dx btw.

Another example is with his learning to read, DS is on the pink books (which is the lowest level atm), we are trying to get him to undestand that pages are looked at/read from left to right. Every time i read to him and try to get him to point at the words, he wants to do it in his own way and he has a hissy fit when i try to make do it the proper way, we are still on the same book for a week now and he still will not budge in his way and is skipping pages.

I agree it is things like this i should discuss with teacher and make sure she is aware of, and not whether she has noticed his ASD symptoms.

OP posts:
Lougle · 01/10/2010 23:13

That's great! Welcome to Rugby. Good game, good game Grin

woolytree · 02/10/2010 01:09

:)

LucindaCarlisle · 07/10/2010 17:43

This reinforces my high opinions of School Nurses. School Nurses often do much better with children with special needs and disabilities than SENCO may do.

However, If the School Nurse passes on a referral to an Educational Social Worker and suggests EWO could help the child and family, It seems that the EWO is incapable of understanding medical problems.

I believe that mainstream schools are incapable of effectively supporting children with disabilities or SEN.

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