pre school cant accept ds for anywhere near 15 hours any advice please

[tiredmummyneedswineandsleep]

DS started school run pre school last week. I chose it rather than the private nursey he was at because they're v experienced with S.E.N (I work in the actal school myself as t.a) Was called to a meeting today to say they can only have him max 6hours week because he is so disruptive.
paed agreed with me few months back that he has adhd and on autistic spectrum. an emergency multi agency meeting is being drawn up so we can all meet to discuss him.
i wholly accept that his behaviour is disturbing others and can understand why they have to do this. however he is my baby and I want him to interact etc.. can i argue with lea and say he is being discrimminated because of his disabilities and say that I would like him to attend a special school. i have found one online tonight that takes children on the spectrum. the group will be smaller. he doesnt cope well in large groups and they do loads of sensory activities and have soft play, sensory room and swimming which he adores.
any help/advice will be greatly appreciated, thanks. hee was 3 in august if that helps. headteacher said in all his years ds is the most severe he has met at such a young age and felt tired just observing him for 30 mins.

bump, sorry am a blubbering mess tonight

Dont be sorry. Hugs.

Im afraid I cant help as my DD is nearly 5 and Im newish to all this but just wanted to say im listening.

Can you start the statement assesment process now so you can get a place in special school?..I assume nursery would support this.

My stepdaughter has ADHD and my DD ASD so I can only imagine how tough this is on you. Good luck with the meeting.

because his not of school age yet, i have a funny feeling they can do this. :(
The special school sounds wonderful, my DD2 starts hers in 2 weeks and i am very excited (sure she is too)
I would certainly ask for it all in writing because all this will help you get more support for him in the future.
Sorry I cant offer more advice. Where abouts are you? Im sure someone here could point you in a direction neeeded.

also have school applied for 1-1 support for him yet? DD2 gets 5 hours atm, and thats without a fuss at all.

no, they can't do it.

call the lea and ask to speak to the Area IncO that covers this nursery, or the inclusion officer that deals with early years.

Get nursery to call the lea and request the areaIncO visits and assesses your son.

Early Intervention is essential - and they should be providing it - there will be 1-1 funding available via the LEA if the assessment shows that he needs it.

not acceptable - start calling now.

i think he is now entitled to the nursery education grant of 15 hours pw as he was born before 1st sept. (suspect stronly it might be going up to 20 hours?) so do NOT take no for an answer. he is entitled to it - how the nursery and lea provide support for him is up to them.

gah.

when are they having the caf meeting? (assume that's the multi-agency of which they speak...)

(meant pre-school. even worse tbh - they should have better access to lea provision than a private nursery. and no blardy excuses>

The pre-school are essentially saying they can't meet your son's needs and it sounds like the special school could be a better placement for him. I would call up the special school to visit and discuss your son's needs.

Definitely get the pre-school's views in writing as it will be useful evidence.

He would need a statement to get a special school place so I would start that process if you haven't already done so.

Yes, definitely start the staementing process if you haven't already done so. If they tell you he needs to be in school first, ignore them, it is crap. I would also place this problem firmly in their court. As Sugarcandy has said, the pre school is saying they can't meet his needs, therefore LEA needs to find somewhere who can. These people are notorious for dragging their feet and having endless meetings that take ages to arrange. Be very persistant and start pestering them. You may need to be a PITA so good luck with developing the thick skin required.the good thing is the pre school is on side and they can really help support your case for Special school nursery.

hi thanks for responses.
well was told today to bring him 10 mins late too so that's another 30 mins a week he is losing out on :( reducing his time from 15 hours per week to 5.5
Head told me that the school can't afford 1:1 funding at all out of their budget and even if he had 1:1 in that setting it would literally be to 'police him' as was told and ds wouldn't gain from it.
Who are INCO? Tried googling INCO Gloucestershire as thats our LEA and couldn't fnd anything.
Many thanks.
Just annoyed that DS isn't getting his 15 hour or anywhere near it even though he needs intervention and socialising more than most.

just call the lea and ask to speak to the early years team, and the person who deals with special needs inclusion for your particular pre-school.

inco is just 'inclusion officer', sometimes they are called area senco. depends on the area.

Another vote for statement application asap. Your ht needs to do a letter saying that despite being on early years action plus, the nursery can't meet his needs. If ds could have some 1-1 even for the 5 hours, it would strengthen your case as it proves that mainstream isn't suitable even with support. Old preschool may do a similar note.

Early years team at LA should be able to advise you about other placements too. As nick says, your ds is entitled to the same 15h as other children, even if it means someone (usually LA) topping up the funding to allow 1-1 support. Also ask if your area has portage and earlybird.

Other thing, presume ds not going to nursery is restricting the hours you can work? Even if you're on a zero hours contract maybe chat with your union?

I am funded by the playgroup association to be with a child 1-1 in pre school so it CAN be done.

thanks have done a lot of ringing around today and been given names of policies to check to see if its illegal.
got ed psych weds and advisory teacher thurs too so will see what they have to say...

Ok, he was 3 in August, so still quite young.
My son is October birthday so almost a year older.

Yes, socialising is important but perhaps he doesn't need the full 15 hours yet. I completely understand if you need him to them but that is a different issue (!).

My son was doing just under 9 hours at that age (3 mornings of 2 hours 45), then 12 when we could bag the extra morning come the Summer term when he was 3.5.

He's doing more now he's in the nursery at the Primary school (just started)-every morning, but tbh I don't think it's entirely necessary at this age. Some kids actually do better home with Mum for longer- until 4.5.

Any chance of getting him into another pre-school/play-group as well- if he's "difficult" then splitting the load might work, or is this not desirable for you?

tgger - that's all fine, but pretty much is putting the onus on the parent having to run around because a state education setting is discriminating against her child. why on earth should she? if she doesn't want the full entitlement of sessions, fair enough, but in this instance the parent is being told that because her child has a disability, the setting does not want him. (at least for the full period)

my daughter was given a nursery place from her first birthday, and had full time 1-1 (funded by the lea) from 2yo.

did you manage to find out who the area senco/ inco is, tiredmummy?

it's grea that you are seeing the ed psych and the sta though.

this is a really important step as it means that the school realise external agencies are needed to provide support (ergo the child is at sa+) - if they are saying thast they still can't manage, even with that external advice/ support, they have NO OPTION but to apply for a statutory assessment and support statementing.

Nick rang Shire Hall yesterday and we don't have an area Senco as such have consultants now. Lady was lovely and told me which documents to check as she said they could be breaking laws if it doesnt state in any of the pre schools policies that they can reduce a pupils hours like this.
I just want DS to have the same chances as any other child tgger. He can't help being autistic and I strongly believe he needs the interaction with others. Also I have to work and am having to rely upon my elderly parents to look after him now as I withdrew him from nursery to attend. Am going to fight like hell for a statement as cant cope with ds or I going through this rejection again next year when he starts school.

well done!!! fab that you have spoken to someone at the lea who is speaking sense.

that's why i said speak to ipsea tbh - they will be able to advise you if the pre-school is going against dda advice.

tbh, it sounds as though things will start improving this week once the sta outreach and the ed psych complete their assessments.

once you have received their reports, you need to make an appointment with the pre-school manager/ senco (usually the same person ) and go through how they are going to translate the advice into the iep.

(do you have copies of the iep they currently have running for him?)

google 'smart targets' for ieps, there's tons of stuff on the web.

sometimes educational settings need to know that you know what you are doing, and that you understand what they should be doing, too... and that you will pull them up on it if they don't.

relationships with education settings can be a bit fraught tbh, but i always always always make sure that in my dealings as a parent i bow to their superior educational professional status and flatter them into helping. (in a 'we are both working for the best for little timmy and i'm finding it so hard, i wonder if you take the time to explain iep target setting to me' etc etc)

at his age the ieps should be rewritten every term, and you should be involved in the process - you should be reviewing the targets and signing to say you have seen them, and at the ends of term you should be invited back to review the achievements and help to target-set for next term.

targets can be social as well as academic (uaually are in this type of situation) but quite clearly state how they are going to help ds meet the targets and what support they will give.

it will be ok - it just takes time to learn the system and ensure it is working to support ds.

but def keep the name and number of the friendly face at the lea.

Ok, sorry, I am a bit out of my experience range here. Just in my area 3 year olds generally only do 3 mornings a week until they are nearer 4 as this is what it is felt they can cope with. I know they are funded for 5 from the term after they turn 3.

Clearly I don't have the experience, but is it helpful to label and statement children at this age- it seems a shame so early on. If they are autistic then generally they don't interact anyway? Sorry if I seem naive, I am interested in this area.

I see the point about being offered the same as any other child. With you there completely. I'm just questioning if 15 hours a week is appropriate for a just 3 year old anyway. Controversial I know, but I wonder if there are any other supports you can get outside the pre-school setting. Is there a better environment for your son- thinking of him, not thinking because he would be disruptive etc.

the thing is tgger - if you are in an educational setting, you are already in the sn loop - there are specialist teacher advisiors and an enormous amount of therapists and advice on offer if you are lucky. the fact that you are in the system and getting to know it, and it is getting to know your child, makes life much easier come stat school age.

ieps etc can be extremely effective for target setting for sn children - THE most important thing for sn kids is good early years intervention. proven.

(and if he was 3 in august, he's entitled to the full 5 mornings now...)

some areas offer portage, but sometimes it's an eoither/ or with nursery. sometimes with as/asd the portage scenario is not suitable, for tother it is.

Ok, point taken. I would fight tooth and dagger then to get the best professional support. Good luck!