Academic Expectations

[IndigoBell]

DS is 9 with ASD and dyspraxia etc. He can't really write / type at all - say the level of about a 6 year old.

His Maths, Reading, Science etc is approx 'age appropriate'.

Thing is he is really bright. The school did a non verbal reasoning test on him (which they do as standard) and he scored the highest anyone ever has.

In reality his Maths, Reading and Science are years ahead of what school is rating him.

Now - I know he struggles (a lot) at school because of his ASD and dyspraxia. But how can I get him to make reasonable academic progress?

Is it reasonable to expect him to? For example he's only in the middle set for maths. And he is brilliant at maths (but does not demonstrate this in class :( )

Got IEP meeting next week - so just looking for some ideas to bring up there....

laptop? oh I see he can't type. iPad?

Typing might be the thing to concentrate on as it's fairly standardly accepted as an alternative for dyspraxia etc. Marion Blank in the States is used to getting kids with SN to type- she might be able to help. I'm using The Reading Kingdom with ds3 (no SN but having some reading problems) now and that teaches keyboard use as well - it's online.

But iPad might be an alternative. DS1 is very resistant to using keyboards or writing but will happily use an iPod touch or the smart board at school and I'm hoping will be happy to use an iPad. There's something about the swishing I think.

Some children with ASD excel with the numbers part of maths, but struggle with wordy exercises.

My dd (AS) was assessed at 11+ when she was 8, and dropped to the middle group of maths having previously been in the top group. Armed with this knowledge, I asked for ds (undiagnosed ASD) to have help with "wordy" maths questions. Perhaps this is something you could ask to be included

Yes, it is reasonable to expect him to make progress according to his ability, not just his age. Unfortunately a lot of schools do stop trying once they've reached age-appropriate targets, especially if it means putting extra measures in place to overcome SEN difficulties.

DS is also bright and has handwriting issues. He used a scribe in his Yr6 SATs, although it wasn't used for general classwork. You could also suggest a voice-recognition programme if he can't type. His EP also recommended a handwriting programme - not sure if there is something specifically recommended for dyspraxia. We also got EP recommendations to have pre-prepared handouts, writing frames etc.

Have you had recommendations from OT at all, like a writing slope, pen grips, that sort of thing?

What is his school's view of his ability? Do they agree that he's achieving below his potential? I was lucky in some ways in that DS' school recognised that he should have been achieving higher, but they put a lot of it down to his reluctance and didn't put into place most of the recommendations that would have actually helped.

Thanks for all your responses.

Yes, luckily school are the one telling me he is very bright and is achieving below his potential.

He's only been there one term, so they spent the first term trying to get him settled and didn't really concentrate on academia at all - which I feel was fine. But now I feel we need to be ramping it up a bit. Expecting more from him. Trouble is if he gets stressed he walks out of class. So it's hard to raise expectations without loosing him.

He's allowed to type when they do a longer piece of writing - but you still have to do an awful lot of writing in maths and worksheets etc. I think I need to discuss this with them.

They're trying to get him a statement - thinking about it maybe that is what he really needs. Waiting to hear back from the EP. They're trying to get him to recommend a statement before they apply.

Can empathise Indigo - I was told that DS would not do as well in SATS (end of year 2) as i would expect because of writing. although i'm plugging away at the writing, as soon as the school think it's appropriate, i will probably go down the voice recognition software route.

Indigo

How would you feel about personally applying for the Statement yourself and asap?. Theres no harm in doing that anyway before the EP goes in. Schools can sit on potential statement apps for ages as well thus delyaing it even further (besides which a Statement can take 6 months to set up anyway).

Also if you apply for it and the LEA say no you can actually appeal their crass decision. Schools do not have that particular right.

www.ipsea.org.uk is a website well worth looking at.

I really trust this school. And will be talking to them about the statement. But at the moment I'm happy for them to build the evidence and apply when they have a rock solid case. - Will know more really after talking to them next week. (I think we're only waiting for the EP report - everyone else has already recommended he needs a statement)

I have 2 very diff problems to solve. 1) How can he write / type to a functional level and 2) how can he do well in the subjects he is good at.

Problem 1. I am happy to be guided by school. They need to put him on a handwriting intervention and let him use a computer more and help him with sentence construction. Because he is so bad at this AND hasn't made any progress at all in the last 2 years I'm confident that they will be happy to do all this.

Problem 2. is harder. Because I don't really know what the problem is. Why does he do so bad in the classroom when he knows the stuff? Does he just switch off and daydream the whole time? Is he too stressed? Is it the way they ask the questions? Is it because he has to write the answers? Is it because he has to work in a group? Is it because he's just not interested in doing whatever they've asked him to do? Is it because of his vision problems? Is it because of his hearing problems? Other sensory problems?

Until we can figure out what's going on we can't work out what to do next.

Thanks guys :) I think I now know what I need to talk to the SENCO about.

Indigobell, my ds is a bright boy and EP wrote in her report "gifted learner" he also has a very high IQ, although he achieves "average" in school and in many areas has regressed.

All the "gifted" seems to have done is to help ds hide his difficulties better.

I have been working along the lines of once he receives the appropriate and adequate help/support in school, he will be able to fulfill his potential to the best of his ability, whether that be "gifted" or "average" learner.

At the moment he is "managing" and "coping" in school, i want to see "enjoying" and "thriving". I have applied for a statement.

Claw - once again we are stalking each other :)

I have been working on that principle too last year (once he receives the appropriate and adequate help/support in school, he will be able to fulfill his potential). I guess I feel that he is now receiving the appropriate help in school and so now I was hoping we could move from managing to thriving.

To clarify. They have employed a TA full time in his classroom because he is in the class. And while not being designated to him she is keeping a very close eye on him and notices when he is stressed and handles him.

They also have a dinner lady who keeps a very close eye on him at play times and helps him play with other kids.

(This is why they will get a statement - they need the money to pay for this TA)

Yes, imagine seeing you here

That is why i applied for a statement, ds has had help from both TA's and myself and is still not progressing. He needs the TA to be a trained TA and have specialist input, this is what i have asked for in the statement (although what i ask for and what they offer are likely to be 2 different things!)

Hi indigo,

re your comment:-

"But at the moment I'm happy for them to build the evidence and apply when they have a rock solid case".

You do not have to wait for the EP report and you actually have a rock solid case now!!. Your DS is currently receiving classroom and lunchtime support; both without a statement behind him could be withdrawn at any time and as it is currently you will have no comeback if it does get withdrawn.

I am only suggesting that you personally apply for the Statement asap because it is in my experience that schools can sit on these applications for ages. Delays can cost dearly. You will thank your own self in the future for acting sooner rather than later.

More importantly if you apply you can appeal if the LEA say no, school cannot.

I definitely encourage you to listen to Atilla. It's not a case of not trusting the school, but I think schools are over-cautious about applying for statements and probably don't want to annoy the LA by putting in cases without super-tight evidence. But it sounds like there is more than enough. If you put in the request yourself, you can have more control over what evidence goes in initially and how it is written.

Is your DS in Year 5 now? Because it will help to push things more quickly now so that his secondary place is clear - it's normally discussed at a Yr 5 annual review.

Ds although asd and dyslexic .. Is a gifted learner... He is basically a sponge for facts and rules..

for his year six sats.. He was allowed 25% extra time, a reader and he had a room to himself.

Given those things he achieved 2 levels higher than anyone expected.. and it just proves that give him the right environment and the time to write his answers ( purely because it takes him longer).. And you have a child who can achieve what I have been saying he can achieve for ages.. he just needs a level playing field.

You put him in a noisy chaotic room and you lose him.

As far as writing.. You know.. When it came to homework projects.. I just let him use voice recognition.. Problem solved. ( and I'm sure upon Reading the projects the teachers thought I had done his homework.. Until they asked him to talk about it).

Anyway I digress.. If your ds is on SA+ it is reasonable for him to have a laptop and voice recognition from within that budget.
( actually was nosing about our schools SEN policies and what extras would be appropriate on SA+... ).

So go ask .. In fact suggest that it would be reasonable for him to use a laptop and voice recognition.. So that he is able to show his potential.. Rather than being held back by his issues.
( maybe ask them to trial it with him and see what difference it makes to his academic achievements)

My DS is 12 now, and was diagnosed with dyspraxia when 7.

I would say hassle the SENCO and EP like mad, Be a pain in the backside. We found his laptop really helped,it gave him confidence, chairs with arms helped him with his spacial awareness and stopped him wriggling in order to affirm where he was .. We had various exercises to do via the paediatric consultant-memory games,and core stability exercises etc..

We worked hard,but it was worth it, because now he can hold a pen normally and write at a reasonable speed,he can carry out and understand more then one set of instructions at a time and he managed to work out his balance issues last week and can now ride a bike!Although he is still physically slow, and mentally dreamy

I would advise to get your DS statemented as soon poss.(It takes a while with these people.) He,ll get more support when he hits secondary school,with so many kids at that level of education, your voice will be lost without the statement backing you and your DS up!

Thanks everyone. Nice to hear some success stories from flamingo and arsenic.

I will talk to the SENCO about the statement today if I see her in the playground. Otherwise as soon as I can.

He's only had a dx 6 months - and I only even realised there was something wrong a bit over a year ago. So I think I have made good progress in that time. But I have an awful lot further to go before I will have done everything for him I can. :)

Somehow I will get him a statement, laptop, and whatever else he needs.

"how can he do well in the subjects he is good at."

This is where the age old thing of differentiation comes in, doesn't it? DS1 was assessed as being gifted in maths, last year, and because he does have a statement, the school was able to obtain resources matched to his advanced maths ability and limited language.

It might not be easy for them to implement without a statement, but is your DS able to dictate answers to a helper? If he can and they can find some way of demonstrating that it does help him, then it's something for a statement. With a bit of organisation, he doesn't have to write everything down, anyhow. He can sort correct from incorrect solutions and paste them into his book, or there is software that can take way all the effort of writing or typing (eg clicker). If teachers are expecting the class to write out problems before answering them, then that needs to be done away with, as it's just a waste of time for kids, anyhow. If writing in a book is hard for him because it's fiddly, he could try writing on a whiteboard (a lot of DS1's work last year was written on a whiteboard and a digital photo or photocopy taken of it). There's lots and lots of ways to get around his difficulties.

Oh, and I'll second the voice recognition idea. When I was flexischooling DS1, last year, I also did some work where I asked him some questions and gave him some practical tasks and used the laptop webcam to record him. Playing it back helped him to then do some written work based on his practical work, without him completely losing track of what he'd done.

Thanks everyone.

DS is in Year 5, and this morning I went to look around my preferred secondary school. And now I understand why he needs a statement :(

I will apply as soon as I've talked to the SENCO (and told her I'm going to).

Voice recoginition sw is a good idea. But isn't it too noisy to use in a classroom? I mean too disturbing for the other kids?

He's his own worst enemy because he doesn't want to be different from the other kids. So I don't think he'd want a laptop or voice recognition sw.

I managed to get him removed from swimming - and he complained that he didn't want to be different - so next week he's going swimming - despite it being a very bad idea :(

Hmmm...this is tricky. This is where I expect to be in a few years.

He needs a statement to protect his provision now and in the future. You need to remember 'special needs' applies to gifted kids too - and the statement will ensure that he gets the extra he needs and not just get swept along with the others and miss out on achieving in the areas he excels at currently.

Classrooms are very noisy. It could be that fact holding him back. Of course he doesn't want to be different to the other kids (my ds is the same) but there may come a time when he must use as laptop in order to get on. I don't think voice recognition would work in a classroom.

Dance Mat typing on the bbc website will help typing skills.

Though it may drive you nuts...

DS1 hates being different, too. He's refused to choose a reading book because he's several levels ahead of his class and tells me he doesn't want to be the best reader and he deliberately got an entire spelling test wrong, this week, even though he's usually reading over my shoulder correcting my spellings. He told me he just wanted to get a few spellings wrong, the little tyke!

Anyhow, despite his hatred of being different, he has his quiet alcove with his own desk and laptop and whiteboard and loves it. He likes to retreat to there when sitting with the rest of the class is just too much for him. The promise of being able to use the laptop also spurs him on to do other work.

"DS is in Year 5, and this morning I went to look around my preferred secondary school. And now I understand why he needs a statement"

Yes, it was when I started visiting secondary schools that it dawned on me that mainstream would not suit DS. Do cast the net wide when looking at secondary schools. If your son has a statement, you won't be bound by normal admissions requirements so you can name anywhere, even in another LA. You have to be more thorough in considering school options when you have SEN to worry about - don't just go on the usual school tours but ask to speak separately to the SENCO as well.