Proposed statement - 25 hrs of support - define please!!

[GoodDaysBadDays]

We have just received ds1's proposed statement after 3 years of trying!

Before I start driving everyone mad on the phone again tomorrow ('tis what I do best ) I wonder if someone could explain the 'funding and resources' section to me please?

It reads:
".....In order to implement ds1's IEP 25 hours per week of learning support assistance will be reqired, which can be provided on a whole class, small group or individual basis. This support includes that which the school will continue to provide from its delegated budget, i.e. a minimum of 5 hours individual learning support assistance per week, which can be provided on a whole class, small group or individual basis. The deployment of support will take into account ds1's needs and the school's existing support arrangements, timetable and organisation."

I have my theories as to what this means but would appreciate some input from others here! My main questions arising from this are:

How many hours support a week is ds1 being provided? It looks like 25 but I am confused by the "whole class, small group or individual basis" wording and therefore am also wondering how much of this is going to be individual 1-to-1 support?

How much of this is funded and how much has to be provided from school's existing budget (5 hours?) and does this make a difference?

TIA

Hi I am sure someone with more experience will come and be of more help, but my personal experience is this, my child has a statement for 26 hours, but the help he is give is decided by the school (we do get a say and have regular IEP meetings).
Some of his help is 1-1, some in groups, some is with a teacher, some a TA. Often it just means that the TA will make sure he is ok first, then deal with the other children in the class.
His help has changed based on his current needs, and he no longer needs constant help, so doesn't get it.
I have never really been able to look at a timetable and positively say he gets all the hours he is entitled to, but a teachers hour is worth more that a TA hour (if that makes sense), but I have always worked with the school and have felt he is well provided for.
In the London borough where I live if you have a statement for more than 15hours, then the full funding for the statement goes to the school from the LEA and does not come our of the schools existing budget. (Statements with less than 15 hours do have to be funded by the school).
My DS is at primary school and we are just looking at the change to secondary school, which I think is going to be much more complicated.
I hope this is of some help.

Thanks so much!

It definitely does help, It confirms what I suspected in that 25 hours doesn't actually mean much! Given the fact that that is more or less all the classroom time at school I guess it just means he'll be 'kept an eye on' all day.

He has been given specific provision for some 1-to-1 mentoring time each week and access to a senior member of staff any time throughout the school day (one who he is to build a relationship with) so I guess that is good.

I can't help but feel a little disappointed that after all the hard work, meetings, reports and stress, this document seems to contain very little about actual provision for ds! Maybe I'll feel more positive in a few days!

Thanks again for responding!

Gooddays, I'm a SENCo and just wanted to say that it should mean a lot more than your son being 'kept an eye on'. Depending on his needs he should be working in a small, adult-led group most of the time, occasionally with independent work as appropriate (although most children benefit more from working alongside their peers rather than being separated).

Your school SENCo or his class teacher should be able to explain more about what his school day should look like and how he would be supported.

Often parents don't notice a lot of difference in provision, as a good school should be putting this help in anyway. It just means that they now also get extra funding on top.

He should also have an IEP/IPP which documents all his targets and is reviewed at least termly.

HTH .

Thanks for the replies and sorry I hadn't looked for a few days!

To make things a bit clearer, ds is 14 (year 9) and currently at a support unit after being excluded (long story for another thread!)

The statement's first job is getting him back into mainstream (or a special school not sure which yet)

We went to the open evening of one of our local schools this week and the SENCO was great and explained how he would make the provision work. 25 hours of support for ds does cover all the classroom time and means (in his eyes) a TA would be employed (and I was encouraged that he said that they would hire someone new as they didn't have anyone at present who was knowledgeable enough about ds's situation) for 25 hours a week and be solely there for ds. He said that this TA would work with ds individually or be in the classroom assisting but so as not to be 'obviously' just there for ds may give assistance to other pupils too. I'm aware this sounds like stretching the TA's responsibilities but to me sounds like a good plan as I(without boring you with tmi) ds does not fair well being 'singled out' or noticed as having sn.

The extra 5 hours, as provided by school, would be used for planning. While this is acceptable in theory, If break times prove to be an issue, as they have in the past, I may ask for some of this time to be used then.

Our EP has also contacted me to run through details and is pleased with the amount of provision given to ds in his statement.

Starlight I may ask for them to be more specific as I do not know where he will be going yet and how well it may be interpreted by others. But as his support is for behavioural and emotional issues it is difficult for me to imagine how it might be more clearly defined. "

And as you put: "They can simply say that they 'deployed support in line with what they believed are ds' needs." That does worry me that I might be fobbed off with that type of comment (and I'm not the sort that gets fobbed off easily )

KIBTT He has had IEP's throughout his school life through SA+ but I have not heard of an IPP??

The school we looked at did say they didn't use IEP's but did constant review. I was a little about this and if he goes there will have to keep an eye on that.

Just have the daunting task of deciding on a school now

Sorry, IPP is another name for an IEP!

Interesting what you say about him not wanting to be singled out - it is a problem at secondary, esp with our boys, as they don't want someone sat next to them all the time.

Good luck in finding a school .

Ah thanks for clarifying KIBTT

I just wrote a whole thing asking about your opinion on special vs mainstream and then changed my mind and am going to start a new thread about that one, if you get a chance to have a quick look it'd be appreciated, a professional opinion is always good

thanks again x

Course I will, but my specialism is more primary than secondary. What is his SN?

Don't worry, found your other thread!

That wording is identical to my DS1's (are you in Essex?!) but I was told it meant 25hrs which includes the school providing 5 not an additional 5. So LEA fund 20, school fund 5. I argued with the LEA a lot about the wording but they wouldn't budge on it and ignored me and went ahead an issued a final statement. When I contacted IPSEA they said there was no point going to tribunal as I would lose since the school etc wouldn't have had a chance to prove whether it was good enough.

So, I would really really go at the LEA to change the wording.

I am in Essex :)

I will check that with LEA on Monday, thank you Polar!

Just seen your thread about your ds's school, sounds horrible

Know what you mean about too much school stuff, am looking at schools for ds3 for next year atm as well as for ds1 (ds3 has gdd and will have a statement too) and it's all too much some days!

Good luck x

Hey always nice to meet a fellow Essex dweeler

It is my own fault for being too trusting. I knew they wanted 100% 1:1 for DS1 but wasn't prepared to go to tribunal as I don't think he actually needs it. But now they are seemingly going out of there way to make issues where there shouldn't be any....

Be prepared for them to say they issue "flexible statements" it is bolleaux. A statement is to set out the provision your DS needs, not what the school or LEA fancy giving!

Good luck on the school search, remember to look outside of the county for the more expensive options if they start claiming all the local schools are full

I've not found many of us Essex birds on here - or maybe they're just hiding, or from 'the home counties'

We've just been told the ebd secondary in essex is full for his year group and i'm panicking!

Not sure about going further afield, a long journey for him esp if he doesn't board full time.

I was so pleased to get the provisional statement through (tried 3 years ago and was turned down) that I thought that it was fab, now the dust is settling I'm not so sure

Sounds like your school is really being difficult and it's certainly not a non-issue, imo they are big issues that need to be dealt with by the school. I should probably move over to your thread now but you've had lots of better advice there than I can give, so I'll leave it with the experts

There's a few of us kicking about on the SN:children board.

Oh I don't mean actually send him, just maybe if they think you will go for it space could be made avaialbe for your DS where you want him to go. have you been in touch with Families in Focus Essex? They are more impartial than Parents' Partnership (though I think they may receive some funding from LEA).

It is a fab start though, 25hrs straight off is a good offer from Essex (their standard is usally 12.5hrs). Just needs to be nailed down.

Just checked with LEA and the school (and 2 EP's) were wrong - it is 20 + 5 hours. SO still good and a reasonable amount but feel like I've lost those hours.

PolarEyes - Have spoken to some Kent / Sussex EBD schools today and have arranged to look round a couple. Had another chat with our admin officer at LEA who said if the Essex school is full (and there is someone waiting for a place in our year group) then there's nothing that can be done.

We're looking at the Essex plus a Kent one tomorrow but feel it's a bit of a waste of time as

1. Essex is full so why look? but we have to in order to name on statement
2. We have to request he be considered for ss which may be turned down anyway

3.If we get the ss agreed we then have to apply for out of area funding which can take months apparently

So feeling a bit about it all this evening

There's an independent EBD school in Chelmsford called Essex Fresh Start which you might want to investigate. They also do Outreach services (tutoring in libraries etc) if that's too far to travel).

You might also want to look at the New School - would be boarding, but their fees are relatively reasonable.

It's always worth looking around special schools - if the school is deemed the only school which can meet the child's needs and is named on the statement then the child must be admitted, even if it means employing more staff etc.

Even if you can't get a place, asking for more than you expect gets you into a better position for negotiation and you could end up with more hours in m/s even if they don't agree to ss.

with a 25hr statement it is likely to leave him unsupported at breaks and lunch - how is your DS at those times?

I think you need some good specialist advice tbh as Essex are currently saying EBD schools are full therefore your DS will be placed in mainstream. e.g. resources are being put before need. Given the circumstances leading up to statementing (exclusion and placement in a unit) I think you have a strong case for arguing for a non-mainstream provision. Also IPSEA ipsea.org.uk hard to get through on the phone but do try. There is SOS!SEN who are a bit easier to get through to sossen.org.uk

www.familiesinfocusessex.org.uk/index.html Families in focus Essex may be able to help you - it does depend where you live whether an adviser covers your area but even if you don't worth seeing if you can get some advice over the phone or if they can point you towards a similar charity.

The priory schools have a good rep for children with complext needs and challenging behaviour - this is the one in essex I could find www.priorygroup.com/Personal%20Site/Education%20Services%20and%20Fostering/~/link.aspx?_id=B470C42294BD426EADD7556D91FA67F6&_z=z. Perhaps ring them and see if they have space/advice?

Don't let the LEA guilt you into accepting a provision that won't meet your DS's needs because of funding issues - you tried and tried with ms and the result was your DS was excluding and you don't want the benefits of being in the unit undone by an inadequate ms placement.

I looked at the Essex LEA school and another in Kent (private, charity-run) and have definitely decided this is the way we want to go, ds is really keen too. So now we have the task of hoping the LEA agree in principle to ss and then the battle for where as our local ss is full, but I'm ready for the fight. DS needs this.

Have a meeting next week to talk me out of ss go over the options. Have already completed paperwork naming our local residential ss (needed to be done this week) so we'll just have to see where we go from here.

Greenpilot - Thanks, have looked at those schools and had a chat with them. West Heath sounds great and I may well go and have a look once I've had my meeting next week.

Polareyes - Break and lunch are often bad points with ds, and something I already mentioned to the senco at the ms school we looked at, but I suspect it would be a 'see how we go' attitude. This is one of the reasons I'm looking for ss now.

Put very bluntly - ds can linger about as a boy who is 'different' and 'a trouble maker' with continued low self esteem and confidence at ms or belong and be included, achieve and be something / someone in ss.

I've had a look at the support links, thank you, tried ringing two but couldn't get through - will persevere tomorrow!

Spoke to the Priory school and am waiting for the right person to get back to me.

The thing that worries me most with the LEA trying to convince us ms is right is that they've said a few times already that we haven't tried ms with the statement in place, which is true. I just can't see it working, not after 7 months (As it is now) is the css and going by what i've been told by the school we looked at. But i suspect they will use that as their leverage. Only time will tell!

Thank you so much for all your help, your knowledge and suggestions have been invaluable and I feel like i'm going into this much better prepared now. Thanks :)

Sounds like you have a good handle on the situation.

I looked at your other thread and see the LEA turned down a statement request when he was in year 6, so their history with your DS is making wrong decisions. Something to remind them of when they wheel out "give the statement in ms a chance" line.

If LEA insist on naming a MS school on final statement and you end up in a tribunal situation (note I really hope this does not happen), I would be concerned about what the SENCo said about keeping their 5 hours back as planning. You need to be very careful with that as the LEA funding is supposed to top up the school's not the other way round. I suspect DS1's school is guilty of doing this but it is really hard to prove once they're in.

hope the meeting goes well next week, I will be shaking pom poms for you