Aspergers or some sort of Autism? Advice needed please

[Anenome]

My DD is just 6...she is happy and sociable in school and out...does well and teachers have not said anything much that is negative about her..well one thing was said in reception...but more of that in a mo.

She's always been "challenging" in some ways...massive temper tantrums if she does not get what she wants...sometimes she will screech like a banshee in short bursts...usually when she is bored....she'll be fine, just sitting there and then she will emit three or four of these owl-like screeches. When I tell her not to she laughs.

She also has a habit of whispering the last word of her sentence...I just googled this and found it is called Palilalia and is common among those with Aspergers or High Functioning Autism.

I began coming on MM because I was worried about her reading at school..she can read but finds the books given to her boring and so refuses to read for me and is reluctant for her teacher. Her teacher is currently trying o find book which will interest her but which she can actually read!

She composes very complex and sophisticated poems and stories...which she cannot write down herself and so she dictates them to me.

I think this is why the books at school bore her, she reads at abut an age 8...so above average but not astounding...but she wants to have me read books which are meant for kids of 11 or 12 to her as she cannot read them for herself...her undertanding outstrips her ability.

She never shuts up...she is never still and sometimes has tantrums about things not being exactly as she wants them...she has many collections of tiny things and hoards a lot.

Gosh this is long ...sorry...in reception she once screamed for half an hour because some minor thing happened...the teachers could not calm her and it was after that that the headmistress said if it happened again we should see a proffesinal...

Whatever that means! Her school is a tiny independant one...they gave us a half burssry last year as they felt that she has a lot to offer academically...and I was going to pull her because DH lost his job.

Anyway...Im blabbing...any advice or thoughts please? I would love to hear what you think?

Oh and sorry...one more thing...she is quite agressive to her little sister and she will NOT speak to adults...apart from some relatives and her own teacher..I could put it down to shyness but the fact is that she shows no shyness with her own peers... feeling worried and not sure what to do next.

Gosh I keep adding things! Sorry...she is also highly sensitive to noise...she has learned to cope better lately but a hand dryer distresses her and she hates the sensation of tags in her clothing and also socks full stop.

Hi...

My DD is ASD and my SD is ADHD so Ive experience of both. Its difficult to say though, does she have any other traits of Autism? How does she socialise with children and adults? Have you looked on NAS website for more info?

Id still say as I was advised, speak to your GP for a referral to a development paediatrician.

Your overall story seems to suggest....though Im not a proffessional...that she is very bright and prehaps her difficulties stem from not being stimulated enough?

You have good reasons to be concerned. Why don't you make an apptointment with your GP - it's not going to hurt.

Does sound like she has some sensory processing problems (noise and tactile sensitivity).

But really if you're concerned enough to be posting here you should be talking to your GP :)

Maybe look up Sensory Processing Disorder too...could explain her frustration and sensitivities....But I must say again...I know nothing!

x posted Indigo...sorry :)

Thanks woolytree....Its odd though...surely the school would have said something if they thought her simply gifted? I think there is more to it than that...she is bright but apart from the poetry and stories, she's not really exceptional...and dont people with Aspergers have high IQs? She spoke very early...and in long sentences...I guess I will visit the NAS site...I haven't seen it yet. And speak to her teacher again...

Right...thanks Indigo will make an appointment...can't hurt can it!

Woolytree I am going to look up sensory processing disorder!

Hi Anenome. It sounds to me that your dd could do with a thorough ed psych assessment (this will be private) as well as seeing the NHS developmental paed. Asperger's is hard to diagnose at times esp with a v high IQ & the paed could do with the background info. Even more so if her giftedness areas are patchy.

And if her talents and weaknesses don't fit into a neat diagnostic box, you'll need as much information about them as possible to figure out effective tactics yourself.

Hi Anemone. My DD has ASD but there are a lot of kids with AS at her school. Kids with AS usually test above average with regards to intelligence but it doesn't mean they're all geniuses. My DD is very sensitive to noise, smells and also cannot tolerate tags. I have to cut them all out.
The never shutting up thing is very common and making odd sounds often very repetitively - my DD is like a radio that never stops. Her speech therapist explained that we all have a constant stream of mental activity, and self-talk but it stays in our heads - with kids on the spectrum, these thoughts tend to come out.
Tanrums are another common trait. It can be over something very trivial but usually about losing control over something. They seem to lose it completely and are inconsolable until the storm has passed, IYKWIM.

But if she's happy and sociable at school, then, IMO, it's not likely to be "typical" ASD. Social problems are usually the first thing you notice and were totally unmistakeable with my DD. Does she have any physical habits that strike you as being "odd" - flapping, rocking and so on?

My nephew had quite severe ADHD when younger and the aggression, lack of co-operation, tantrums, low frustration level are also symptoms of that.

No Froginajacuzzi

She doesn't flap or anything...there s a chid with ASD in her class and she does flap and rock...it's a really comple subject isn't it? And I think there must be sooo many variations and differing severities...as you say though...if she is sociable and the school is happy so far then I should pobably shut up. Her whispering habit is improved this week...maybe because she is buisier or something...the tantrums are a niightmare though!

Hi I am in same ish boat, not sure the score re my 6 year old ds. so reading this thread with interest as I am equally baffled with him and what the heck aspergers etc is and if he has it!

Anenome I wouldn't be too worried just yet. Your DD is still little and some of her behaviours are possibly attention seeking. She sounds like a very bright little girl with a strong personality, who likes getting her own way, and who likes winding you up Maybe she makes the funny noises because she enjoys it and because she knows she will get a reaction from you.

I honestly think the teachers would have said something by now as they all receive training nowadays on how to recognise children on the spectrum. If anything she may have ADHD - particularly if you're noticing that she has unusually high activity levels and can't keep quiet. This will interfere with her ability to focus in school as well and cause more than the usual amount of tantrums. Might be worth looking into that aspect at some stage if there are further problems at school.

Just wanted to say that I find it all so confusing. My DS had a meeting with paed, as we had some concerns about behaviour. She said we are possibly looking at ASD but is going to see how he gets on at school - just started reception. I find it hard to determine what behaviour etc. is 'normal'(sorry i know that is not the correct word to use but hope you know what I mean) and what is ASD. What I mean is that some of this stuff you can see in most people. Or am I being naive and trying to convince myself that my DS is not ASD?

Just wanted to add that having AS does not mean that the child is exceptionally bright (the Rainman myth!)....AS kids will typically have average or above average IQ (and only 3% will be savants)..

...hard to say with your DD, could be lots of things BUT a caveat is that with girls, AS/ASD is generally underspotted/diagnosed so I might push to have her assessed by a developmental paed and see what they say, won't harm.

I posted a version of this on another thread....might be useful for people wondering what professionals might look for and ask about in interviews and assessments with a child and the family. (based on the sort of testing done by the Autism Research Centre in Cambridge - full versions of standard questions available on their website)

1.Does s/he find it difficult to join in peacefully and cheerfully when playing games with other children? (most children with an ASC don't)

1. Does s/he come up to you spontaneously for a chat and is interested in you rather than just telling you information and going again? (most don't)
2. Was s/he speaking by 2 years old in a fairly usual way for 2yr olds? (most have unusual speech patterns, no speech or use speech in odd ways even if we can say the words, though experts are a bit about this part of the diagnosis these days)
3. Is it important to him/her to fit in with the peer group ? have the same toys or clothes or interests as them? (mostly we don't care)
4. Does s/he appear to notice unusual tiny details that others miss ? sight, sound, smell etc? (our eyesight and hearing is often three times more detailed)
5. Does s/he tend to take things you say literally when you only meant them as an expression? (oops, we often do this a lot)
6. When s/he was 3 years old, did s/he spend a lot of time pretending and involving people with the play in an equal and friendly way (e.g., play-acting being a superhero, or holding teddy?s tea parties)? (we might memorise a set routine, but really flexible relaxed play is rare)
7. Does s/he like to do things over and over again, in the same way all the time, and get very upset if that routine is broken? (we hate sudden changes to routine, especially when tired)
8. Can s/he keep a two-way conversation going? (we tend to talk at people, not with them)

10. Does s/he have an interest or interests which takes up so much time that s/he does little else? (we can often concentrate on an interest for hours, weeks, months, years...) 11. Does s/he have real friends, rather than just lots of vague acquaintances? (we have difficulty knowing who's a friend and who's just someone who says hello) 12. Does s/he often bring you things s/he is interested in to show you and talk with you about them? (really talk with you, not just list out information and walk away again) 13. Does s/he enjoy jokes and friendly jostling with family? (we can find humour difficult to understand and may hate 'joking around' etc. Varies, though. 14. Does s/he have difficulty understanding the rules for polite behaviour? (we always struggle with this) 15. Does s/he appear to have an unusual memory for details? (we might recall things we saw years ago with perfect detail etc) 16. Is his/her voice unusual (e.g., overly adult, ?posh?, flat, or very monotonous)? (often the case with us) 17. Is s/he good at turn-taking in conversation? (we're usually rubbish at it) 18. Does s/he make normal eye-contact and seem able to ?read;? what your eye contact means and use eye-contact signalling to say how s/he is feeling? What about reading face expression and body language? (we're usually hopeless at using any of this stuff or 'reading' it properly) 19. Does s/he have any unusual and repetitive movements? (not all of us do, but many do) 20. Does s/he sometimes say ?you? or ?s/he? when s/he means ?I?? (we can find it really hard to know which one of us is "me" and which one is "you") 21. Does s/he sometimes confuse the listener because of not explaining what s/he is talking about? (we think you know the stuff that we know) 22. Does s/he often turn conversations to his/her favourite subject rather than following what the other person wants to talk about? (our interests are SO interesting - how can you not be thrilled to hear two hours on the subject of ) 23 Does s/he have odd or unusual phrases or repeat phrases over and over again? (often we practise new words and phrases for days and weeks and years) 24 Are there any unusual sensory sensitivities or hyposensitivities? (we tend to be very sensitive or undersensitive to things like pain, heat, cold, touch, taste, sound, light levels, shadows, flickering lights, smells - overlaps with sensory processing disorders) 25 Are there any unusual co-ordination issues? (some of us struggle to co-ordinate ourselves properly - overlaps with dyspraxia sometimes)

Only a professional diagnostic team can work out what's what from all of this, but it's useful to know a bit about it anyway.

londongirl, they reckon the figure for savant-like skills is nearer 10% and more studies are showing that many of us have extraordinary abilities in tiny areas. Just areas that no-one was interested in looking at before/things we weren't good at explaining we can do. Certainly not true for all of us, but it's a bigger number than people first thought, certainly.