DS in destruction mode

[rebl]

Since starting school ds seems to have gone into a destruction mode which try as I might I can't get him out of. He's single handedly run small circles round the teacher and ta and trashed the classroom. He's hitting/pushing children at school. When I get him home he's just going on the rampage. He's ripped all his books up, he's snapped most of his toys, he's tried to break his jigsaws but resulted in breaking up all the boxes as he couldn't break the jigsaws, he's smashed his hand through the living room door, he's slammed the bedroom door so hard the hinges have twisted. At bedtime he's headbutting the wall and thumping us in the face or wherever he can reach. We can't control him at all. This afternoon we've reached breaking point. I love him to bit but neither me or dh can control him at all. We actually don't know how to get control back or to keep him safe anymore. We have always had mild behaviour problems but this beyond anything we've ever experienced. We're out of our depth and don't know where to turn for help. We don't even know if this is short-term issues associated with settling issues at school or a longer term issue.

It won't be like this forever!

I feel for you, Rebl. Others will be along soon with some proper words of wisdom...

Don't really have any words of wisdom, but went through a bit of this with ds1 a few years ago. It was very scary so can imagine how you must feel. In our case things improved when ds was given some medication for possible bipolar by a psychiatrist. This seemed to lessen anxiety and also had massive impact on his agression. Other professionals e.g. psychologist were a bit useless tbh. Hope someone else has some other ideas for you.

Rebl how old is ds and what has he got in place at school?

I think firstly you need an imediate reactive stratagy so that ds, everyone around him and things around him are safe.
Do you have a safe place for moments like these?

arsenicCupCake He has nothing in place in school thanks to a terrible ToD taking away the IEP's about 9months ago meaning now we have no evidence for applying for statement.

The school have offered extended half days after he trashed the classroom. We have a problem with that though, dd (twins) is now kicking off because "its not fair" that she has to stay in school and ds comes home.

We have no safe places. Everywhere we thought were safe he's proved this weekend aren't safe. His bedroom - he climbed onto the radiator and then onto the windowsill and opened it to climbed out. This is the problem in all upstairs rooms. Downstairs we tried the hallway but he put his hand through the living room door and tried to run out of the house. We wouldn't be able to keep him off the stairs either. The living room which is our only room in the house downstairs at the moment as doing an extension so has all the toys, tv etc in it he's already scribbled on the tv, eaten the fake coals from the fire, pulled all the toys out and broken them (including dds's). We have no choice but dh to hold him at the moment. I try and hold him during the week but he's getting very strong and he bites me.

I've just told dh I'm going to ask the school for a meeting ASAP.

Right now he's really calm, sorting out 6 puzzles he's tipped into a big pile. But in 2 mins time he might totally loose it for no reason and start hitting and breaking things again.

he's 4. Has mod/sev bilateral hearing loss. His behaviour has been classed as challenging by preschool and nursery but no suggestions of assessments or help other than me being sent on a parenting course which was informative and reassuring that I'm doing everything right, but it just doesn't work. He doesn't respond to timeout, star charts, marble jars or whatever. We give loads of attention all the time he's being good, we ignore when he's being naughty and just remove him to the hall (which we thought was safe until today).

Oh rebl - this is terrible.

As far as I understand he is deaf and has various other problems but was more or less fine (behaviourly) until he started school 2 weeks ago? And now he is absolutley uncontrollable and a different child?

If that is right - then I would remove him from school immediately - i.e. don't send him back on Mon.

If his twin complains you'll just have to deal with that. Life's not fair or equal even if you're a twin. He has his hearing problems and she has her migraines.

But it is school that is doing this to him - so get him out of there now! Then when he's calmed down and is his normal self (in a few days, weeks or months) You can then decide whether to put him in a diff school or HE or send him back to the same school.

But I really wouldn't send him back to school on Mon. (Even though I suppose you need the respite.)

Rebl.. Just about to throw dinner at my lot.. I will be back.

I would deffinately agree that school is the base cause of the behavioural issues at home.. Especially as he has nothing in place for him.

I will pop on in a bit.

indigobell Yep, you are pretty much right. He was 'difficult' in nursery and preschool on occasion but never like he's been these last 2 weeks. He would hit/bite if he was in a tussel with another child. He would flood the bathrooms if left by himself. He would empty the sand over (preschool sand was inside in a tray thing) if left by himself. All annoying but all attention seeking type behaviour. At home he was the same. Difficult on occasion. We've always had sleep issues with him which have got worse since starting school.

Dinner ready, I'll be back.

rebl

re your comment:-
"He has nothing in place in school thanks to a terrible ToD taking away the IEP's about 9months ago meaning now we have no evidence for applying for statement"

What have you been told re statementing?.
You have evidence - you must have seen a developmental paediatrician, audiologist to date. There must be people who have been involved with DS from early days. If LEA refuse to statement you can and should appeal as a matter of course.

I would not send him in tomorrow but instead get the GP to sign off your son on grounds of stress due to inadequate support being given by school.

You can write to the LEA asking for a Statement on your son's behalf - you do not need anyone's permission to write such a letter.

Your son is being failed here primarily because there is nothing in place for him.

Am unaware of back story but why on earth did TOD take away IEPs nine months ago?.

Attila That is what the head teacher has said. She said that we need evidence to get a statement and its all got to start from now. But then she's also told me that he's only on school action and not school action plus because school action plus is for when he has a statement but someone here has pointed out that is wrong as he has an outside agency coming in.

He does have developmental paed, never approached behaviour with her as never been out of control like this. Have approach sleep issues on numerous occasions with her.

Have audiologist and SALT as well.

ToD took IEP away because she said he was age appropriate. She then pulled her support as well and now only see her half termly. Things have slowly deterioted since then, mainly at home. Never have had it this bad though.

I will speak with dh tonight when we've got ds to bed and dh has calmed down from the destruction of today. DH thinks we should send him fulltime to school and let them deal with it and get them to get a statement sorted. I say it would be the end for ds and thats a cruel thing for dh to even suggest and the nights will be horrendous.

Hi rebl,

HT needs to realise you have evidence and bags of it. TBH I'd be looking at other schools now, even if you had a Statement in place with this school named their attitude seems all wrong.

Your DS does not have to languish on either SA or SA plus (he should be on this plan in any event as there are outside people involved with him like the SALT, audiologist and developmental paed to name but three) in order to receive a statement. He does not have to be on any such plan at all for a statement to be given in the first place.

Re the IEP well IEPs are not known on here as Individual Empty Promises for nothing and that would have never sufficed re schooling anyway. Stupid of the TOD to take it away though - saying that he was age appropriate is failing him. I would approach her superiors and make an offical complaint.

It is down to the LEA and them alone to grant the statement app and I would suggest you put the request in asap.

Not right or proper to send DS to school under these circs; I would seriously consider taking DS to the GP tomorrow and getting him signed off due to inadequate support being given. I'd also be giving the dev paed a call as well re the current situation.

Good luck to you, keep us posted as to developments.

I think if it was me there is a few things I would do straight away ( damage limitation as such).

I would see the gp about signing ds off school until you can get an emergency statement / provisions in place for him.. I would also consider HE during this time if you can do it. ( as already suggested ).

I would also make his bedroom into a safe place.. Even if it took window locks or shutters.. Also I'd put heavier or a third hinge on his bedroom door and a door bumper on.
I would provide him with ripping cloths ( old cloths marked ripping) and if you can something like a ouch bag ( this can just be on his bedroom floor ready to beat up).

Also it was suggested to me Epsom salt baths.. It really does work.
I know it's not much help.. But I do think you may need to firefight whilst you get provisions in place for him.

Red and yellow cards are also helpful.. As is jumping about to get rid of some of the pent up stress.

:) hth a little bit

Punch bag.. Not ouch bag !

Epsom salt baths are helping us - as are Omega Fish Oil.

4 year olds don't have to be in school, and you're still entitled to 15 hours funded preschool per week. So old nursery can take him bac. And access extra help if need be. Since ToD is so rubbish, inform her but bypass her. IE do stuff then tell her what's in place.

You need proof things are this bad. Going to the dr fir ds sore hand from the door will help. Or your own bruises. Or his obvious anxiety. Or play daft and say you've just popped in to make sure it isn't a simple ear infection. Ask for referral letter to paed or camhs or whoever while you're there.

Maybe reception teacher or senco will do a decent report or maybe not so make a plan b to ensure school problems are recorded. Start with a diary of your own. Ask his old keyworker to visit him at school (and home ideally) and write up her observations.

You can apply for a statement yourself. Write the letter tonight. This starts the clock ticking, the statement has to be on place within 26 weeks unless they can justify that it isn't needed. And then you can appeal. Explain the basics and state you will shortly be forwarding supporting documents.

Right, dh and I are agreeing to disagree. I've shown him this thread and he's prepared to let him go on half days for longer but he thinks taking him out all together isn't a good idea.

I will take him to the GP, whatever appointment I can get, oh dear I bet that will be in the morning . He's always badly behaved there even on a good day so I suspect he'll be a nightmare for the GP. I can show him the hand, his head (its covered in bruises from hitting it on the table and wall) and his back (he's scratching it). His hair is starting to thin as well which I think, but not 100% sure yet as not caught him doing it, is him pulling at it. He's done that before and thats documented by dermatology paed as being behavioural not medical.

I was tempted to record one of his rages but I can't pick up the camera and try and control him at the same time.

I will call the family support worker the school have refered him too tomorrow morning as well. We've not been able to make contact with her since the referal a week ago because she's been on holiday but I think she's back tomorrow. I'll also inform the ToD of whats going on.

Nightmare for GP=fab. Imagine trying to explain if he goes along & acts all normal....

And remember the statement. Ipsea have model letters on their website. It'll take you 30-60 min to send a quick though informative request. Some councils even take email requests!

My ds has SA+ and supposedly an iep. Basically a waste of time... just a formula to record what the teacher feels like doing. For severe hearing impairment and now deteriorating behavioural issues this really should not be the case.

Rebl, just a thought, could you afford to have a behaviour therapist just to see if you can control his behaviour if you can't take him out of school? My DS used to push and hit DD after school a lot although not violently, he was also spitting at anybody going past, his ABA therapist has managed to stop this behaviour.

Just got him dressed this morning and he obviously must have kicked a door or wall really hard. His ankle has a really horrible bruise on it and he's broken the skin slightly on it. Been ringing the dr since 8 and its just engaged. But I do have ds in his uniform. I've promised to pick him up at lunchtime. He's taking his comforter into school as well (something I've been saying no to this because the rule is it lives in his bed but right now I think he needs it).

tiredmummy what's a behaviour therapist? How do I find out about them?

we use ABA (applied behaviour analysis)therapy for DS which has been briliant for his destructive behaviour (throwing things, pulling strangers clothes, hitting strangers for the fun of it). It has sorted out a lot of his behavioural problems, so I will highly recommend it to you considering your DS is young (we started ABA for DS at 3.5, and now at 5, he is a completely different child).

There is one thread on MN talk at the moment about recommendation for ABA therapist in London, may be you can run a similar one for where you are. Sorry I can't help as we live in the U.A.E and I am so angry that nobody ever mentioned ABA to us in the UK (DS was diagnosed at 2.5)and we lost a vital year.

rebl, hope the morning goes well for your ds (and for you)

also hope you get a GP appt - that bruising sounds nasty (did you get a photo? useful for evidence of self harm)

we use ABA with dd1 too (in fact, her behaviours can be so extreme she is now in an ABA school)

as tiredmummy says, it is about behaviour management.

I use Sean Rhodes, website here

he is excellent, and I have no hesitation is recommending him.

Hope today goes better for you

GP on Thursday, apparently thats the earliest unless he's going to die.

Support worker (not entirely sure who she is or who she's attached to but was referal from school last week) is coming on Thursday as well.

He was fine in school today but didn't eat much (that is unusual for him but he might just not have liked it). Picked him up by himself straight after lunch before lunchtime play and we walked home. He was difficult to get him changed and was hardwork entertaining but he wasn't destructive at all . But the moment I so much as turned my head he was heading for trouble and was hard to get him out of his direction and back on track but I managed . He seemed very tired which considering he'd only been in for 3 hrs and was meant to be doing a full day today I was surprised about. We had to work through the tiredness when he got home with activities and I wonder if this is a big part to play in his behaviour in the last couple of weeks. Since getting dd from school he's got increasingly difficult and started hitting the wall with his fist and screaching instead of talking at around 5 but that hasn't escalated. He's proving hard for dh who's trying to get him to bed now.

silverfrog thank you for the website, will go and have a look now.