Ed Psych visit for statutory assessment

[debs40]

DS is undergoing a SA and the EP is to see him later this month.

She has sent me an email saying that she would be happy for me to attend the assessment but that it would benefit the assessment process if she could attempt to work with DS on his own at first. If he becomes anxious, then she suggests I could join them.

She says that her reasoning is that she would like to see his response to questions and his ability to stay on task. Also she says she is trying to keep things as close to his normal school experience as possible.

She says she will start with materials which he is known to have a strength in so that he enjoys the tasks and doesn't find them too daunting.

This is the same EP who told me I'd never get a SA for him.

Is this normal procedure? I am not sure which tests she is even intending to do.

Any thoughts??

Of course my first thoughts are that 1:1 doesn't replicate his school experience in any way as he presently gets no 1:1!! Second thought... bog off missus.

These were the tests used by the EP when she did DS1s assessment -- I assume this is pretty standard:
Wechsler individual achievement text (WIAT II UK)
Word reading; a test which measures a variety of decoding skills ranging from letter identification to the reading of familiar words
Spelling: a test of spelling accuracy for dictated letters, letter blends and words
Reading comprehension: a test which measures ability to understand what has been read
Numerical operations: a test which assesses the abiliyt to identify and write numbners, count using 1:1 correspondaence, and solve written calculation problems and simple equations involving the basic operations of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division.
Mathematics reasoning: a test which presents a series of problems with both verbal and visual prompts and assesses the ability to reason mathematically.
Listening comprehension: this test assesses the ability to listen for detail and comprises Receptive vocabulary, sentence comprehension and expressive vocabulary.

BPVSII British picture vocabulary scale II (Receptive vocabulary)
The pupil listens to a speoken word and chooses the picture (out of four) which represents the word
CELF-R (UK Ed) Clinical evaluation of language fundamentals revised:
Recalling sentences -- a test of short0term memory for spoken sentences.

The EP did these tests with him in class but one to one. She then went through the results of the tests with us and Senco and spent around 45 mins discussing Alec's difficulties before agreeing with us a summary of the discussion which she would use to write her report. She also contacted us before the assessment to tell us what it would involve.

hth

The EP report is an important one here and the LEA will take a lot of notice of it (as the EP is one of the employees and servant of the LEA). Do not therefore tell her to bog off!!:). You need this person on side.

The EP observed my DS in class without me there and only told me her findings post assessment. What they are proposing to you sounds normal practice. Have had two separate EPs observe DS to date.

If I had £1 for every time I have heard on here (or elsewhere) an EP say that child will not get a statement I would be quite wealthy!. These people are under pressure in the first instance not to readily issue statements.

(P.S. Glad DS liked the t-shirt, you're both very welcome. My DS is doing okay at secondary school also and he got a merit award yesterday which pleased him no end).

We are in a similar position, have EP report from July 2010 but as they have agreed to assess DS he is being seen again, I haven't been told what for either despite asking.

Your comment worried me about this EP saying that you will never get SA, so I have linked to this, old article, but still relevant in todays climate.

Please take it as helpful rather than as a means of creating more worry.

www.societyforqualityeducation.org/newsletter/archives/blame.pdf

Thanks. The lack of trust in this process means you just never know what is appropriate and what is not!

Glad all is going ok so far with your DS Atila!

Thanks Minx. I think the comment about never getting an SA is because that is what they say to everyone until they get one!

yeah we were told we'd never get a statement, and have ended up with 32.5 hrs one-to-one support. Believe no one except the voice of mumsnet special needs board!

Interested in this Debs. Am also going through assessment and EP is due to see ds shortly. Am told that she will do an observation in class then meet for a chat after - no mention of any of these tests! A different EP saw him earlier in the year and suspected HFA which has now been ruled out so will be interested in what this one has to say. She was the same one who saw him at infants where he suffered trauma and was kept apart from his peers and put with younger children when his verbal skills were 3 years ahead of his age! Not sure if that was her idea or not - I will be asking why, as he has social communication problems,how being apart from peers was expected to help. Hope all goes well with your assessment.

Interestingly, I have had contact from our independent EP who cannot see DS until Nov. I forwarded on the LA EP's email and her response was that I should say that I understand what the LA EP is saying but that I would like to sit well out of the arena of his exchanges with her, but that I would nevertheless like to be present.

Her view is that one always does right to question motives, intent, fairness etc and that she has dealt with several cases where the way a question was put or answered became a crucial issue at tribunal and had to challenge the apparent lack of evidence found by LA EPs of attention or social communication problems which are in fact intrinsic to the child's clinical diagnosis.

She says, unquestionably, I should attend

Read Niminy's list and want to weep. We really need all that for DS as may help with working out school refusal.

Our EP said same about no way we would get a statement, after her one and only observation of our son (distinct impression it is a standard line trotted out), then wrote a report for SA based on other people's reports and discussions and we got max hours given here (25 +5).

Still finalising the statement, and very pleased we got it, but hard to ask for proper quantifying when all we really have is some broad generalisations and agreement that difficulties are wide ranging and complex (cue almost visible step backwards from all concerned)- but not enough detail of where exactly the issues lie.

So nothing is making it right for DS in school and no one knows what to do next. Looks like we are heading for the AS dx too with no specific assessments (though I can accept dx, DH and I would still like to see things unravelled and measured a bit more). He has only been in school once this week for half a day, and this has been going on for months.

Oops, hijacking again, so stressed I just keep gabbling.

Debs, to get back to topic, the way our observation was done I was happy not to be there as I did want DS to be seen in normal class setting and she would never have got a true picture with me there. However, this was months before we put in for SA so I had no idea of the importance.

Ampers, this is not a classroom observation. It is her working alone with him on assessments.

Sorry, I should have made that clear. She has already done a classroom observations. She is now undertaking full assessments (I assume) for the SA and this will be done 1:1 in a room at school.

Coming late to this, debs, but your latest post makes me think that this isn't off-beam. Parental presence can give reassurance that wouldn't be there in a typical classroom situation.

I know taht DD1 was seen on her own by the EP. She couldn't observe DD1 remotely, because DD1 wouldn't leave her alone .

Our LA EP wanted to see DS on his own, but he wouldn't even enter the room with just her so I had to go in. I'm glad I did, because he was refusing to interact with her and needed my input to get him to co-operate. I was quite surprised by that - I just assumed that an experienced EP would have strategies to deal with unco-operative/anxious children.

DS has done assessments alone with independent EPs and I actually prefer that - it means that I can't be accused of influencing his answers/attitude.

The EP tells me now that her reason for asking me not to be present is because of her past experiences of having parents there.

She says she met a boy with AS last year for the second time. The first time she saw him without his parent and they managed the assessment very well. However the second time she met him his parent wanted to be present but the assessment was extremely difficult as the young boy behaved completely differently with his parent present and would not engage and they had to abandon the assessment.

She says that the parent's presence changes the child's behaviour and approach to work and sometimes his or her answers to questions about school.

Maybe I'm really cynical and everyone else' EP is trustworthy or maybe it's because I know the parent and child she's talking of (they have just spend a difficult two years battling for a statement but they have also heavily coached their 8 year old and provoked bad behaviour to achieve it)but I really object to her assumption that we're all going to be the same and I would have thought, professionally, it was better and more appropriate for her to ask me what I thought would be best for DS rather thn just assume he will make a fuss because I'm there.

She doesn't know him from adam and wants to sit in a room 1:1 for an hour testing him. Yet, me being there will make this less like school??

It does go to trust. If I pay an independent EP, I trust them. If the LA EP wants to see my child alone, I think 'mmmmm...'

I'm just bumping this for anyone else's thoughts.

I was going to write formally to confirm that I will be present as this is not an observation but an assessment and she has given me no good reason why I shouldn't attend.

My son is not difficult and would not refuse to be tested just because I attend.

This is an excuse because they don't want parents observing the assessment process.

Debs, I think it depends on what you want out of the session.

Dd1's EP observed her at school for normal classroom behaviour. We then insisted on further observation because it was clear to us he was grossly underestimating dd1's skills, and this was crucial to our case. Our case was that with the right style of teaching, dd1 was far more able to learn, and so we had to show this.

We insisted the second observation was at home, so that he could see dd1 interacting as part of her home programme. I was present, as was her tutor, and we set the whole thing up so that EP was just observing. As it was, dd1 then close to include him, and insisted he joined in (which suited us down to the ground)

So, you know your ds best. And you know his difficulties best. What ate you trying to get EP report to reflect? If it is that he struggles with strangers, then maybe sending him in alone is a good idea. If you are trying to show that when your ds is more relaxed and comfortable he performs better, then go in with him for reassurance (or maybe try splitting the session - out for first half, then in if distress gets too much)

We sejt dd1 on her own into private SALT report, but she was with her OT, who she knew slightly and liked, and we were at that.point going for maximum "and if she isn't comfortable look how she struggles" impact, having provide what she was capable of (have to say this was private SALT, so no doubting motives!)

Silverfrog - this is not an observation. It is a 1:1 assessment where DS will do standardised tests - although a partial selection of them.

I want them to do an acccurate assessment of his areas of needs and weaknesses.

If they don't know him, they will not understand whether he does the tests as well as he could.

Bottomline is that he is a child with social communciation difficulties who will be nervous with a strange person and I don't want him caused anxiety unnecessarily.

yes, i understood it was assessment.

sorry, my post wasn't clear - we sent dd1 in for private SALT assessment, knowing she would fail. her speech and comprehension are really quite good, yet if with someone who is not making allowances for her ASD, then she crashes abysmally (I think I sent you her SALT reprot, didn't I?). Our point was to highlight the difference between what EP had had proved to him dd1 could do (and did), and how she was without the correct suppot (which was shocking, as per SALT report)

do you have proof of what your ds can achieve (whether via private report, or evidence on film of in-depth reasoning, problem solving, etc)?

if so, then you could use this assessment to highlight how he doesn't achieve this when not comfortable.

I understand totally about not wanting to cause him stress unnecessarily. It is horrible having to leave you child with someone who you know doesn't understand them, and will not make allowances - but that si the point of the assessment. to highlight problems.

If you think that there is nothing available to prove his strengths, then you need to go about collecting that.

how would you sitting in ensure he tests well? is it "just" becasue he woudl eb more comfortable knowign there is someone familiar in the room (you need to prove his anxiety is a barrier to his learning), or woudl he need some help/assurance form you that eh is doing ok?

Silverfrog, the point of assessment is to see what a child and can't do.

Maybe I am overly suspicious but my understanding of the LA EP is that they will endeavour to put a positive gloss on anything they possibly can. This is much easier to do without a parent present.

We have independent IQ reports and an independent SALT.

I think there is likely to be a gross overestimation of skills rather than an underestimation because that suits their purpose and I would rather be there to see this for myself.

My point about whether he could do as well as he could is an abstract one in a way - how can they measure the ability of anyone they have never met before.

Indeed, Starlight. I have been the one to offer to take a book in and sit quietly in the corner to not 'disrupt' things.

The EP is not worried about 'influencing' the 'academic' results but about the child 'playing up' and refusing to do things because the parent is there.

The reality is that she is implying that parents make their children worse deliberately - probably cos she thinks we all get our kids to 'camp' things up for assessment purposes!

This is confirmed by her statement that when she asks children what they think about school they seem all happy and say one thing to her, and then say somethign different in front of their parents (who are obviously so desperate for statements they want their children to lie about their happiness).

God what a system we have here.

debs, i am well aware what assessments are for

having finally understood your reasoning behind wanting to be in the room, I can see where you are coming from.

but, if you are sure he is not going to perform to the best of his ability, due to his social & comm issues, then the EP will have a hard time putting a positive gloss on it, ime.

this is where the assessment part helps you out, rather than observation - she will have raw scores to show what level your ds is achieving at.

if you are sure your ds can achieve better than the levels he achieves in the EP assessment, then you need the proof for that.

th pojnt of assessments is standardised scores. they do not, of course tell the whole story, but they are there to give an idea of what level a child's abilities lie. the assessments are standardised, so as to make allowances for nervousness, not knowing the child fully, etc.

Sorry Siverfrog, I was referring to the point you made about assessments being there to highlight problems. I think they are for more than that, depending on who is administering them.

The tests have largely already been done by BIBIC and she is not seeking to replicate their data but she will be looking at how he deals with testing and assessing other issues like auditory processing.

We differ on this silver as I think that whatever their purpose, assessments administered by an EP employed by a LA are likely to get whatever gloss they EP chooses suits the LA case best.I

I also think that as most parents wouldn't send a 7 year old to an hour long doctor's appointment without parental support, it seems very odd to expect them to send a child to an hour's session with biased psychologist, especially when they have social communication difficulties.

I say that irrespective of tests used and/or outcomes.