So what are our thoughts on this then?

[shimmerysilverglitter]

Half of SN children misdiagnosed

I have concerns with this article stating that there is a higher incidence of SN children coming from deprived backgrounds. While some of the points in this article are sound, it does worry me that it is confirming what the majority already think about SN kids anyway. That was certainly my overall impression, although I know it was trying to say that poor teaching could be at the root of many diagnoses, I am not sure that was what I would think reading that article if I was uninformed about SN.

I wish everyone would get it
they said SEN not SN

Exactly 2shoes.

There is indeed a higher incidence of children with SEN coming from deprived backgrounds. That is absolutely true.

thanks, i thought I was going mad lol
surely if you have a child whose first language isn't english they might be classed as having SEN
not sn though

Well the title of the article says SN kids, which is worrying in itself as many people probably wouldn't read it in depth unless interested in the subject matter.

Am aware that it meant SEN though.

oh I didn't mean you
shimmery

I think children with English as an additional language aren't classed as having SEN and the funding for teaching them comes from elsewhere.

The group they are talking about are those who have speech and language delays because they've not been talked to or read to, or who can't hold pencils, or sit still, or follow simple instructions, or do any of the things that allow them to begin learning. Of course pastoral care and better teaching are ultimately the answer.

But speaking as a school governor (with responsibility for SEN) in a school with 45% on the SEN register, this is a means for getting enough money to give those children the extra help they need.

Follow the money, as someone on the other thread about this said.

Oh ok .

If this group have 'not been talked to or read to, or can't hold pencils, or sit still, or follow simple instructions' etc., then it isn't just poor teaching, it's poor parenting, over-sized classes and lack of resources.

The last govts parenting classes seemed a good start, and even if the SureStart model didn't do as much good as was intended, it is a route worth pursuing.

Maybe we are expecting too much of our young school kids too? I would prefer to see less formal teaching and more learning through play until they are ready for it

Agree very much DD. But I wonder how long that stuff will last once the cuts start? As far as I can see schools are just trying to mop up vast social problems amid huge expectations about what they can reasonably achieve.

Well, the Tories (and the toady Lib Dems) are for the rich, so frankly they probably don't give a damn

Well, it's going to be a hell of a lot cheaper to spend the money on children with socially induced SEN than to keep them in prison for the best part of their adulthood after they turn out unable to learn an honest living and with a grudge against society. The statistics of illiteracy amongst the prison population are pretty shocking.

What the Ofsted inspectors don't seem to get is that you can't have pastoral care without anyone paid to deliver it. And most of the time, the only way to get money is through statements. No SEN register= no money= no special teaching or pastoral care. So if a school senses that a child needs pastoral care and/or learning support to get anywhere at all, then they have no option but to put that child on the SEN register. Or leave him in a corner until he misbehaves so you can exclude him.

"The group they are talking about are those who have speech and language delays because they've not been talked to or read to, or who can't hold pencils, or sit still, or follow simple instructions, or do any of the things that allow them to begin learning. Of course pastoral care and better teaching are ultimately the answer."

Aye, but when you talk about those difficulties you're talking about my ds2 and to a large extent my Ds1 (he loves writing words and numbers so has no trouble with pencil holding and can follow simple instructions but does have significant difficulties with regard to understanding, concentrating, social interaction, obsessions, hyperfocusing, generalising, abstract concepts and sensory issues as a result of his ASD.) Ds2 cannot talk, cannot concentrate, has severe learning difficulties in all areas and severe interaction difficulties.
I talk to both my lads, I read to them, I interact with them. I set consistent boundaries and discipline. I have done so since they were tiny babies (though obviously not with the discipline and boundaries when they were tiny babies!) They get a wealth of pastoral care from me and their dad as well. They get fantastic teaching support in their schools. And yet Ds1 still echolalics passages from Mr Men books or from Cbeebies or Spongebob, even though his access to tv is miniscule compared to the amount of other stuff he does and places we go to, making the ignorant think he's shoved in front of the tv all day. And ds2 still pulls my hair and flings his food on the floor despite being constantly told not to do so.
So yes, you may be talking about a specific subset of children with home-resulting problems. But when my children present like that through not through their home life but through their very definite difficulties, my children are going to be tarred with the same brush. Which is rather galling to be honest.

It is guilt as well though isn't it.

My ds is ASD and he struggles to hold a pencil, can't sit still etc.

I remember our OT coming to assess him (for not being able to hold a pencil) and saying to me "does he flop around in his seat when you are trying to get him to write?" I said yes and she said "yes, very common with ASD kids, first we have to address the sitting up thing before we can even think about putting a pencil in his hand!". I cried when she said that. To hear that it was very common with ASD kids and that there wasn't much I could have done. I had been feeling so guilty, thinking I had not done enough with him when he was smaller (he never showed any interest) and it was all my fault. I am his Mum if I am thinking it and I KNOW he has ASD, what are other people thinking, well actually I know that because the tell me, my family at least .

How do you interpret that? He won't sit still, hold a pencil, the majority of people who hear that will blame the parents and believe that they haven't interacted with their kids enough. In my opinion that article could be very damaging by mentioning that children from deprived backgrounds are more likely to be SN, its a confirmation of what loads of people think. I think it could have written in a much more effective way from the point of view that "Lack of interaction and input from parents and teachers lead to misdiagnosis in some cases" rather than the scare mongering "loads of SN/SEN kids being misdiagnosed because of bad parenting and teaching" iyswim?

Sorry this has turned into a bit of a rant.

but Donkeyderby, it isn't always dodn to poor parenting.
ds had a terrible time learning to write, , i did everything I could to encourage him(blimey I read so much to him I knew the books of by heart)
I do aggree with the people who have said that we start our kids in school to early(I am talking nt kids here)

dd ( disabled, I am not using sn now!! needed to start early)