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Ds's nursery have raised concerns.

24 replies

WaftyCrank · 09/09/2010 13:56

He's only been there 3 days and already they have said they have some concerns with some of his behaviour.

He isn't badly behaved as such but if they ask him to do anything he doesn't want to do he completely breaks down. Not like an angry tantrum more like completely heartbroken, floods of tears etc.

He doesn't play with any of the other children but would rather play on his own.

He can't concentrate on one activity for very long and tends to just flit about from one thing to the next.

He stands in the middle of the room on his own and just screams for no particular reason.

These are the things the manager has mantioned today and has said she will observe him over the next few weeks to see if he settles down.

None of this behaviour is new to me, he's always been like this but with him being my first I never realised it was a problem as I have nothing to compare him to.

I mentioned some of the things to my HV in the past but she said there was no problems. I have since moved house so I have a new HV and the nursery manager has asked me to mention this to her.

I'm just not sure what to think or what to do really.

He's 3.2. He also has a speech delay and is proving very difficult to toilet train.

Not sure about the point of my post, just looking for advice really.

OP posts:
5inthebed · 09/09/2010 13:59

What concerns do they have? Basing it on three days of play might not be here nor there, but always best to get these things looked into.

You've said you raised it with your HV before, why did the HV say nothing was wrong?

Sorry for questions, I just want to understand a bit better.

Ineed2 · 09/09/2010 14:05

If he is not used to being away from you he isn't going to settle in 3 days. If he hasn't begun to settle in 3 weeks maybe or 3 months if he is very clingy than you would maybe need to be concerned. I don't know your Ds but I do work in a pre-school and believe me most children don't settle in 3 days!!
However if you already have some concerns it might be worth having the chat with the new HV.
Good luck.Smile

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/09/2010 14:11

Hi Wafty,

Some HVs cannot readily pick up any social or communication difficulties in young children as they are often not trained to spot such problems.

You have also raised concerns previously. Given what the nursery have now stated have you considered now asking the GP for a referral to a developmental paediatrician?. This may be a way forward for you and your DS and it'll be quicker than dealing with the health visitor.

I will tell you now - this is not your fault that this has happened. You may understandably feel lost to know what to do now or even afraid as to what they could say re him ultimately but he is your son no matter what and as such you need to act for him and on his behalf asap. As his Mum you are his best - and only - advocate.

Good luck, seek answers for you and him.

Keep us posted.

WaftyCrank · 09/09/2010 14:26

Thanks for the quick replies.

Their main concerns are the screaming and the complete breakdowns when he's asked to do something he doesn't want to.

They have said they are going to observe him for the next few weeks to see if he changes as he settles and they will keep me posted with what they find.

My HV didn't give reasons for her saying there was no concerns, just that he was fine.

He has always been hard work but I didn't realise just how hard until DD got to 18 months and she is a breeze compared to him however I do realise it could be just because all children are different.

Other concerns I have which the nursery haven't mentioned are that he can't hold a conversation at all. You can ask him a completely simple question and he will just shout a random word or talk about something else.

He doesn't really understand simple instructions.

He is scared of several things such as motorbikes, street cleaners, a few cartoon characters and adverts to the point where he screams hysterically and tries to climb up me.

He has no sense of danger. Will run off all the time, has once opened the lounge window and leant right out (this is now locked!) doesn't care if he couldn't see me or if I left him somewhere. Seems to have no seperation anxiety at all.

He puts everything in his mouth and I mean everything! Just sits chewing on things that he finds on the floor like his toys, shoes, clothes.

The other thing is though he has had quite a lot to deal with in the last year or so. His dad walked out on us for someone else last year but he still sees him on a saturday. I have since met someone else who treats them like his own and is wonderful with them but it's still another change in his life. Plus we have moved house twice since his dad left so that has unsettled him.

OP posts:
mummytime · 09/09/2010 14:29

In my experience going to the GP and saying the nursery have raised concerns about XYZ is enough to get you a referral. So good luck!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/09/2010 14:42

Hi Wafty

He has had a lot going on in his young life granted but I do not think that these are the full and underlying reasons for his ongoing social and communication difficulties, being scared of some tv characters and a lack of sense of danger. You probably do not think so either.

You have had concerns re your son for some considerable time and these to my mind now need to be properly addressed by a developmental paediatrician. As mentioned before some HVs are not trained enough to actually spot such difficulties so she could have missed something important here.

I would urge you to go to your GP and get the process of diagnosis started via a developmental paediatrician. You certainly need answers.

WaftyCrank · 09/09/2010 14:50

Thank you I will phone the GP's now for an appointment on monday. They are shut tomorrow afternoon unfortunatly.

He is supposed to be having speech therapy but as we have moved he seems to have been lost in the system.

I will speak to my new HV tomorrow about him then see the GP on monday.

Family members have told me he is fine and there is no such thing as normal behaviour but I have several friends with DC the same age and he does seem different, he has done since he was about 18 months.

It's now the nursery have mentioned something that it has got me thinking maybe things aren't quite right.

Thanks again for all the replies, I will let you know how he gets on.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/09/2010 14:59

Hi Wafty,

Good on you for deciding to phone the GPs on Monday. Do be insistent to this person regarding your son seeing a developmental paediatrician (do not be fobbed off) asap due to yours and nursery's concerns. If you're wondering what to tell the GP tell him exactly what you have written here.

Family members do not always see - or even want to see - that there is anything amiss. Denial is also a powerful force.

You need to determine where you are with regards to SALT (speech and language therapy) for your son. Again the GP can help in this regard but if you have moved PCTs you may well have to go back on the usually long list again.

Do keep us posted. Never forget that you are your son's best - and only - advocate.

TotalChaos · 09/09/2010 15:49

agree with Attila about taking things further with the GP.

and make it crystal clear to the nursery about your DS's language problems and difficulty understanding instructions - you don't want them to think he won't do something when it's more that he doesn't understand what is required of him. My DS (language delay) had a fairly wretched time on starting nursery, which was probably due to neither nursery nor myself realising how much he couldn't understand.

TotalChaos · 09/09/2010 15:50

also ask for a hearing test. It's a routine test for all children with a speech/language delay, even if you don't think there is any problem iwth his hearing.

WaftyCrank · 09/09/2010 16:46

He had a hearing test about 6 months ago which came back fine and we were told his hearing is fine so he must be fine and there is no need to worry anymore.

Another thing he does which I'm not sure is usual in a 3 year old or not is when he's told to do something, i.e. move away from the tv, he does it fine with no bother but then 2 minutes later he's forgotten what you asked and moves straight back.

I'm going to write down everything I can think of tonight and hand it to them tomorrow.

OP posts:
Lougle · 09/09/2010 20:18

WaftyCrank, I am going to tell you my story in the hope that it will help you, but I don't want to worry you, because I am not saying that your DS is the same as my DD Smile

Are you sitting comfortably? Grin Then I shall begin....

DD1 screamed all night every night for her first 12 weeks of life. Slept all day. Then, she suddenly settled at 12 weeks into a routine of sorts, although she woke several times per night.

DD1 was a beautiful, lovely little girl. She was (we thought) bright, inquisitive and paid attention to detail. She was hard work, but then often bright children are. The things that we thought signalled bright are quite laughable now. But, she just didn't seem to go through the irritating stages that other children did - she wasn't at all bothered by us leaving the room. We went to church, and we could leave her in the creche quite happily while all the other Mum's struggled with separation anxiety.

At around 8 months, she had her 8 month check and I commented that she didn't seem to respond to sounds in the way I expected. She didn't seem bothered by sounds, and didn't respond to much to a door closing, although it was clear that she could hear it. She also didn't seem to be babbling as much as other children her age. The HV noted our concern but 2 months later, she had picked up another sound, so the HV declared her normal.

DD1 didn't find it easy to pull herself up to standing, and by 15 months I thought her posture was odd. HV brushed it off, but I went back, and at 17 months we saw a physio. She thought DD1 was 'normal but a bit slow'. At 20 months, DD1 was cruising (just) and she almost gave us piedro boots, but decided against it. DD1 walked finally and haphazardly but determindly at 23 months. So she was declared normal.

Roll on several months. We had got used to the now mobile DD1. She didn't seem to understand 'no' or boundaries. She just laughed, and would 'smack' her own bottom, grinning. No discipline worked at all. But somehow, it was clear that she wasn't actually being defiant, just that she didn't 'get' naughtiness. She would stare intently, and people saw it as a sign of intelligence - 'taking it all in'.

We got used to DD1 in our own way, and modified our way of being. Stairgates everywhere - we even used to take a travel stairgates 100 yards up the road with us when visiting our friend who had a staircase which opened into the lounge. It was the only way we could have a cuppa without spending the entire time retrieving DD1 from the bathroom. Looking back, it is crazy that I thought DD1 was 'normal' but I was a 1st time Mum, and nobody says anything, do they?

At 2.6 DD1 started preschool. The preschool manager commented on her gait being 'immature'. I said, "well yes, she did only start walking 7 months ago". I told them that they shouldn't leave the door open because DD1 would escape. They said "We do know what we're doing...". Two weeks later, her keyworker said "I can see what you mean!".

Anyhow, she seemed to settle fine (no separation anxiety don't forget) and at the end of term, I thanked the preschool leader for welcoming her in. She said "I'm really looking forward to seeing how DD1 develops over the Summer, to see the change in her in September". I was oblivious and thought 'ahh, how nice Smile' Blush

DD1 returned in September, and within 2 weeks, the manager and the SENCO approached me to say that DD1 was 'a little behind' and they felt that she could do with some extra attention, so could they refer her to the area Inco? Something in me clicked. I just knew in my knower, as they say, and deep down, I knew that they were right, and that DD1 wasn't quite 'right'.

My sister was FURIOUS when I told her. She said "HOW DARE THEY SAY THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH MY NIECE". I replied that she was my daughter, and that I agreed with them, that there was something not quite right.

The area Inco saw DD1, and agreed that she needed 1:1, so applied for funding which would take some time to sort, and preschool started giving her 1:1 straight away, saying that they would sort out the funding issues later. At this point, the Inco still felt that DD1 was just 'immature' rather than having any sort of condition, although she agreed to refer to a paediatrician because I raised concern about some sensory features (always putting things in mouth, scared of adverts, some cartoons, some noises, had to touch certain things, had to do roly-polys on the grass at certain points).

Fortunately, for us, DD1 started falling over for no reason at preschool. They kept telling me that they weren't sure what happened, they couldn't see what she had fallen over, or why she had fallen. I took her to the GP, who diagnosed a virus. A few weeks later, she fell over at the playdough table. She was stood playing with playdough then pole-axed to the floor. No warning, just standing then led on the floor. I walked her home, and she fell out of my hand-hold twice on the way home. I took her to the GP, who sent us to the hospital. They realised she was developmentally delayed, kept us overnight, and arranged ECG, EEG, CT Scan, etc. The EEG showed Epilepsy but the CT was clear.

A few months later DD1 had an MRI scan, which showed her brain abnormality.

Now, 2 years later, it is clear that DD1 has learning difficulties, sensory issues, etc. She starts Special school next week.

I don't want to worry you, but the evidence shows that the very best thing for children with any special needs is EARLY INTERVENTION.

Take this opportunity and RUN WITH IT. If your DS is just a little 'quirky' or 'immature', the paed will send you on your way. If not, you will be grateful that he is not starting school with teachers thinking he is awkward or stubborn or oversensitive. They will be able to meet his needs.

Let us know how you get on. Feel free to lurk or jump in. Ask questions, whatever.

mariagoretti · 09/09/2010 20:27

Agree.. If your ds is fine, you'll be reassured by seeing the pead. If not, early intervention is best

woolytree · 09/09/2010 20:49

Good advice. :)

RaggedRobin · 09/09/2010 20:56

your ds sounds very like my ds at that age. my ds is now 4.9. he's had some speech therapy for language delay/disorder and some occupational therapy for sensory processing difficulties.

we have deferred his entry to school and he goes to a language unit for extra support over and above his mainstream nursery. his difficulties are now very subtle and he is doing very well.

again, not to say that your ds has the same issues as my ds, just wanted to share our experience.

two books that we found quite useful were hanen's "it takes two to talk" and the out of sync child

5inthebed · 09/09/2010 21:02

Ineed2 put exactly what I wanted to say into (better) words.

Your concerns about your DSare valid, don't let a HV brush them under the carpet.

Good luck with your appointment.

WaftyCrank · 09/09/2010 21:18

Thank you for all your replies. I have been concerned about him since he was 18 months but after being constantly told he was fine by HV's and family I just thought it was me being PFB.

The nursery teacher asked me if he was badly behaved or naughty at home and I said no because to me a naughty child knows what they are doing to be naughty iykwim. DS is just hard work and can be difficult at times.

He is the same regarding the escaping Lougle, can escape from anywhere! I can't talk him to big parks on my own with DD as I can't leave her to run after him. He doesn't run off as much however if the moment takes him, he will take off and I have to really yell at him to get him to stop. He doesn't seem to have any fear about being on his own or getting lost without Mummy.

I spoke to my sister today who is also a preschool teacher and she said she has had concerns for a while but didn't want to mention it until now.

My friends say his preschool don't know what they are talking about as he has only been there 3 days however to me, they are more likely to notice these things as they don't know him and see them as just DS's little things he does. And for them to notice after just 3 days does concern me.

I'm just feel so guilty if there is something and I didn't do anything before because I was told he was fine even though I knew something wasn't quite right.

Thanks again for your replies, it's nice to know there is someone out there in the same boat to chat to.

OP posts:
5inthebed · 09/09/2010 21:32

TBH, he sounds a lot like my DS2. He was dx with autism when he was 2.6. Not trying to scare you, but the behaviour is very similar. Ds2 didn't speak until he was 3.6 and was only out of nappies the month before he was 4.

Does your DS walk on his tip toes a lot, lie on the floor and roll cars past his eyes, flap his hands when excited or anxious?

carriedababi · 09/09/2010 22:45

AttilaTheMeerkat, could you come here for a moment please, i would liek to ask your advice about something please.

here

excuseme sneaking in op.
i wish you luck.

WaftyCrank · 10/09/2010 08:45

He does everything you have wrote 5, apart from the tip toes.

He is obsessed with cars, trains, trucks etc and anything to do with space.

I will actually be more surprised if they say there is nothing wrong tbh.

OP posts:
mummytime · 10/09/2010 09:02

WaftyCrank - you have got to a key stage. The I will be more devastated if they say there is nothing stage. (I had this driving my son to a dyslexia assessment.)

Do keep a notebook handy to jot down all the little things (the car etc. obsession for one).
So you have a hope of remembering them when you need them.

WaftyCrank · 10/09/2010 09:26

That's a good idea thank you.

I just dropped him off at preschool and he threw a massive tantrum because he couldn't go in yet. He was screaming and smacking me and making the funny grunting noise he makes when he's cross and I felt like all the other mums were staring at me and him but for once I didn't actually care.

I wrote down a list of things that I had concerns about but had been told were normal behaviour for his nursery and it filled an A4 sheet.

Going to phone the GP's now for an appointment.

OP posts:
SweetTalkinWoman · 10/09/2010 11:23

Hello WC - your OP sounds like I could have written it about my DD. I pushed my HV and GP for a referral to a community paediatrician earlier this year and have been relieved to have been taken seriously. We're getting help at the moment - Portage, SALT - but it is looking like DD will get a diagnosis of ASD later this year (she's 3.2 also!). Part of me is relieved, part of me is grieving for my DD. I'm new to the Special Needs boards and have already found them invaluable support. Good luck with your GP appointment.

AgnesDiPesto · 10/09/2010 14:20

He sounds like my DS who has ASD but he regressed so became obvious quickly. Many children on the spectrum only get picked up when they go to nursery. He has speech and play skills so well ahead my DS who is similar age and once you get to the bottom of it is so much you can do to help. The school will not use the A word until you or a professional does so if you feel brave enough say I am thinking it's a language or autism issue and they may be relieved and start to talk to you more openly about what they are thinking and you can start to put strategies in place eg visual supports to help if not understanding language at same level etc. Say to GP as well as then you should definitely get referral and you can even ask school to write paed letter of their concerns as they will ask school for this anyway and so save time. Also a lot of children do present with Lang probs which do resolve with support. Ask the nursery if prev experience and if so ask them to put some extra help into place. Nothing you do will be harmful eg a picture timetable. Agreeing to come in 10 mins late when door open and other children settled. Having adult support with play etc Making sure there is a quiet space he can go to if upset etc none of these things will hurt. Also you can self refer to speech therapy so ring them up. Ask school if you can go for a chat when other parents not there and say you are going to gp. They sound on the ball. Also you don't need a diagnosis for a school to put in support eg 1:1 the school just need to decide he has extra needs.

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