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SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

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Original poster

Autism or HFA

54 replies

nappyaddict · 21/08/2010 22:08

DS has been given a diagnosis of Autism. I understand for this diagnosis his IQ would be less than 60 and for a diagnosis of HFA it would be higher than 60. When he was diagnosed he was 3. How exactly do they test the IQ of a 3 year old? As far as I am aware his IQ has never been tested and if it has I have certainly never been told what his IQ is.

OP posts:

Eveiebaby · 21/08/2010 22:18

Hi Nappyaddict

My DD was diagnosed at 3.5 with ASD. We were told that they did not know where she sat on the spectrum as she was too young to have her IQ tested.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 21/08/2010 22:25

I think children as young as 2 can be tested using specialist tests designed for preschoolers such as the Stamford-Binet test. What I mean is surely if my DS had done this test I would know and if he hasn't had his IQ tested how they can define that it is Classic Autism.

Has anyone successfully pushed for a proper IQ test at this age?

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TotalChaos · 21/08/2010 22:25

I know this will sound stupid in the circs, but try not to dwell too much on the autism/hfa/iq point, 3 is so young, the docs don't have a crystal ball.

when DS was assessed for ASD (they thought he "probably" had language problems rather than ASD) they did some non-verbal intelligence tests on him - getting him to copy patterns of blocks, choose the odd one out from some pictures, do a jigsaw etc.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 21/08/2010 22:28

However I think the results are likely to be more accurate if the child is about 4 or 5.

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takemesomewheresunny · 21/08/2010 23:18

at 3 ds autism, at 4 HFA at nearly 5 asperger, changes every time we go. having said that, there were huge development between 3-4, including talking.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 21/08/2010 23:22

I thought if they had a speech delay at 3 years old they couldn't have a diagnosis of Aspergers, because that is the only difference between HFA and Aspergers. Speech delay when they were 3 plus IQ over 60 = HFA, No speech delay when they were 3 plus IQ over 60 = Aspergers.

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Original poster

nappyaddict · 21/08/2010 23:23

BTW when you go where? Paed appointment or CP appointment? We haven't been given any follow up appointments with CP who diagnosed him, only the Paed who originially referred him.

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genieinabottle · 21/08/2010 23:52

DS is 4.9, he was assessed 2 months ago and given the dx of autism.
While they explained all the tests they did, they said DS has average non-verbal reasoning, this combined with the fact that he has fonctional language (delayed though) before age 5, indicates he is HF. But the dx report will read autism.

I think they just prefer giving young children autism or ASD dx rather than HFA which is more specific in a way. I could be wrong... it's just the feeling i got when they were explaining things to us.

Mumi · 22/08/2010 01:00

Since when has IQ been considered a determining factor of autism? My then 4 year old DS wasn't assessed for IQ when diagnosed, nor has he been in the 5 years since.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 22/08/2010 01:41

I don't why it is, but it is a factor in deciding which diagnosis is given.

Autism = triad of impairments + IQ under 60 + speech delay when 3 years old

HFA = triad of impairments + IQ over 60 + speech delay when 3 years old

Aspergers = triad of impairments + IQ over 60, but no speech delay when 3 years old

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cansu · 22/08/2010 06:18

I'm not sure this is true when they are really young. I've seen quite a few parents whose children were diagnosed as ASD whether they were talking or not talking. Perhaps it depends upon the paediatrician or team doing the assessment.

IndigoBell · 22/08/2010 08:56

NappyAddict - I can undertand why it matters to you - but try not to let it. It really doesn't matter what exact diagnosis they get. In that it won't affect what support they get or what help you get or what treatments you get.

Treat the dx as 'the end of the begining', and now you have to decide what (if any)kind of therapies / treatments you want to do with him.

You will have to do your own research and make up your own mind. And the dx doesn't change any of that.

Good luck. It's a long hard road - but we're all here to help you. And there is so much valuable info posted here that you will soon have heaps of ideas about what you should do next.

Marne · 22/08/2010 09:37

As others have said, i dont think they like to give a dx like HFA to such a young child', dd2 was diagnosed when she was 3 with Autism, we were told we would have to wait until she had started school (and been there a while) to get a dx of HFA.

Dd1 managed to get a dx at 4 years with AS but it was clear that dd1 did not have any speech delay.

We have been told that dd2 is possibly HFA as she seems to be bright (is reading, writting and doing maths at the age of of 4) but her speech delay is severe.

colditz · 22/08/2010 09:40

I only have an ASD diagnosis for Ds1 - my LA thinks it 'isn't helpful' to distinguish between HFA, Autism and Aspergers.

I think they've done a good thing actually, it's all too easy for the DLA agency to focus on the HF bit of the HFA, and ignore the A!

daisy5678 · 22/08/2010 11:14

If you look at official criteria (ICD or DSM), the IQ thing isn't there.

J has an IQ well over 60 (if he was testable) but has a dx of autism. Or ASD, depending on what mood psych is in or what local guidelines on labels are currently out - the labels are all local ones afaics...there is no national consistency!

Mumi · 22/08/2010 12:35

Where did you get the information from, nappyaddict? I can't find anything I'd call authoritative about it online.

According to the above DS should be anything from HFA upwards which rings true, but also that I should be Aspergers, which I don't think fits.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 22/08/2010 12:53

I can't remember which website but I know people on here have mentioned the same thing.

For me I want to know because I have just discovered they have SN units attached to mainstream schools in my LEA. I have heard unofficially from people that work in special schools and mainstream schools in the area that the special school places generally go to children with classic autism and the SN unit places generally go to children with HFA or Aspergers.

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IndigoBell · 22/08/2010 13:13

NappyAddict - I'm sure it will be decided on a case by case basis, and those are only guidelines.

Most LEAs would prefer to have people in SN units rather than special schools, so if you and they think he would cope best there, then there is a very good chance that is what you would get regardless of dx.

takemesomewheresunny · 22/08/2010 13:37

I think you get more support if you have a dx of autism. But regarding HFA/aspergers, it seems to be down to individual paed. When I looked up the difference in research papers about the two, the conclusion seem to be that they could not be separated by adulthood.

I usually just say his autistic.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 22/08/2010 20:22

Indigo Why do LEAs prefer to have people in SN units rather than special schools?

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IndigoBell · 22/08/2010 21:51

NappyAddict - well I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that SN units are far cheaper than special schools.

Maybe somebody else knows?

Original poster

nappyaddict · 22/08/2010 23:44

I don't know about SN units but I was told full time 1:1 support in mainstream costs roughly the same as a MLD special school place, possibly a little bit more.

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IndigoBell · 23/08/2010 10:07

I think Marne knows a lot more about this. Maybe she's around? They refused her DD a place in a special school and instead she has to go to the local school.

Why don't you start a thread on this topic - loads of the good mums here know about this I think.

StarlightMcKenzie · 23/08/2010 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

sc13 · 23/08/2010 10:43

Paed refused to put DS on spectrum too, and agree with some of the mums here that classifications aren't that useful (and are in fact being changed all the time).
I also agree that 'HF'A sometimes is a bit of a joke label, because the kid in question may have massive sensory issues, and in fact 'function' not very well. I have seen HFA being used as a pretext to give 'cheaper' statements and deny places in special needs schools to the parents who want them

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