Autistic children please have a look at dr andrerw wakefields research

[haze36]

My son has autism and i fully support dr wakefields findings about autism especially if your autistic child has bowel problems like my son it's a real eye opener to say the least.I am not saying mums of autistic children need to agree with his findings but boy is the evidence stacked up.You can eith google dr wakefield to get the info or head to his facebook page dr andrew wakefields work must go on.So you would type in facebook dr wakefield's work must go on.you will be gob smacked when you read his findings.

My DD is asd, DS is due his jabs....havent researched into it yet. Will follow with interest.

Wine helps!

Im dreading the full report, had a panic today as I got a letter for our next appointment...in late November! I asked the doc at the last appointment they said when shes back off hols in 3 weeks....I remained calm, rang the number on the letter....next appointment now in 3 weeks. Lady was lovely once I told her it was even written on her notes. Now thats good service from NHS!

Seeing it on paper will hit me as its more likely to point out her problems than how lovely she is!

Worried about DS re jabs, seems NT now but paranoia creeping in.

My ds had asd traits and bowel problems before he had his mmr.
Dr wakefield has been struck off as he was taking samples at his kids birthday parties and things like that. Also his research was not regulated he just decided to do it and then wrote the paper it was unofficial and illegal.
Personally I do not agree with any of it, to me it is a matter of timing, traits tend to surface at an age just after the mmr is given.

My DS had traits and speech delay before he had his MMR at age 19m.
But i still thought long and hard before letting him having the booster jab at age 3.5.
Didn't noticed any further problems developing other that the ones he already had.

You will find that there are quite a few people who will be interested in what you have to say, however I am not one of them.

I think think there may have been some controversy because Dr wakefield was being paid by either parents or lawyers involved an lawsuit which needed such an outcome and he failed to declare a conflict of interest. That's why I lost interest in the end.

I would rather focus my very limited energy and motivations on the way forward so if he has proposed any, it'll be useful to note.

I agree with finefatmama and others above. Firstly my son was most definitely ASD before his mmr, secondly, even so, I see autism itself as the enemy we have to battle against now. And the LEA, but that's a whole other story

Before I had DS1 I had to admit I got sucked into all the mmr panic, but my DH (scientist AND sceptic) showed me that every other study in every other country in the world has shown no link. I think if you only hear one side of the story, argued v vociferously, then it's easy to start taking it as gospel. I needed to read the other side, argued just as passionately, and things became a lot clearer. Or as clear as they ever get in my sleep-deprived, befuddled brain..

I really am not going to get embroiled in this.

....however...

Wakefield's work has not been discredited. In fact, it was described, at the gmc trial, as "good science, which still stands" - this was by a witness for the prosecution.

Wakefield never claimed that mmr caused autism.

The research was both regulated and legal.

Yes, it was a small sample, generally known as a case series. It posited a hypothesis, which wakefield stated needed further research. It still does.

All the studies claiming to disprove this hypothesis do not even begin to test it, so they cannot in any way come close to disproving it (which they do not)

The ethics clearance accusation? Depends on your viewpoint. If you think that children presenting with severe gut issues (we are talking blood and undigested food in stools at the very least) warrant clinical investigation (I am rather inclined to think they do) then the tests were fine to be carried out. If you think a child presenting.g with those symptoms should be sent away, then you are clearly a twat. Wakefield (and team, let's not forget he was not working alone) found severe ulcerated colitis on investigation - how odd that no other doctor thought that was worth bothering with. Can you even begin to imagine the pain and distress for those children? This new form of bowel disease is what the famous paper was about.

He did declare that he was engaged as a professional witness for the legal aid stuff. This has actually been shown to be fact, and there is an interesting series of emails/letters/memos which prove this.

There are studies which replicate wakefields work. I cannot recall them now (its late, and I am on graveyard shift with a toddler with sleep issues), and am on phone so can't link - search for Beachcomber's links, she knows her stuff.

And, a final plea - please don't let's turn this into a ruck. Wakefields work has greatly helped my daughter (who, incidentally has had all her jabs) - as it has helped each of you on here whose children are gf/cf with success. SN is supposed to be a safe haven for us all, so please can we not start flinging insults and accusations, and keep it to actual facts?

Wooly - I also want to add the decision about to jab or not to jab is more complicated than whether or not Dr Wakefield's findings are legit, because many people believe all jabs can cause autism for different reasons than Dr Wakefield does.

Not sure if jabs still contain mercury, but if they do then I personally think you should not give an ASD child any jabs.

As my childs problems started the day after his 3 month jab (he went blind!) I will never be convinced that any jab is safe. However that doesn't mean I'm against jabs - it means I want them to narrow down which kids should or shouldn't be having jabs.

Well said Silverfrog.

Would really hope the SN board (on which I am major lurker) would be the place for accurate info on this very complicated issue. I am trying to educate myself about vaccination issues and it's really complex once you get past the soundbites (DD has severe autism so that is angle I'm coming from). I'm not there yet but have learnt enough to know that Wakefield et al's research still stands.

I think it's really important to remember that the parents of the children in the study were and remain huge supporters of Wakefield et al. Does that not mean anything to fellow parents reading about the case? It does me - we all know we are the experts on our own children and are best placed to know what is helping them.

The parents and their children had absolutely no voice at the GMC hearing. Is that not very uneasy-making knowing that? I read time and time again (and experience it too) how when dealing with schools, LEAs, paeds, SALTs, OTs, EPs etc, the parent's view is disregarded or diminished. I find myself muttering 'Don't mind me, what would I know? I'm just her mum'.

WRT Wakefield et al's research I think it's so important not to forget the parents' views. Let's not be like the agencies we deal with and think the parental view is incidental. Let's afford them the courtesy that their views are very important and they mean something.

Let's just assume that they might just know what they are talking about when they say this is what happened to my child post MMR and this is how Wakefield et al helped. Let's assume that their ongoing and huge support of Wakefield is significant.

My two with autism and bowel problems had ASD dx before the MMR so it definitely wasn't the cause for them and it didn't exacerbate either the autism or the bowel problems.
I have an open mind however and wouldn't say that because the MMR wasn't the cause of my dc's difficulties it wasn't the cause of any other child's difficulties.

My DS had signs of ASD before the jab. His bowels are horribly regular despite living on sandwiches and crisps.

Silverfrog is right - SN board is here as a haven.

So many times I have asked myself 'why has he got ASD?' and 'why us?'. Pointlessly, I think. It's a fact for us. I'd rather put energy into giving him and us the life we deserve.

I gave DS1 the MMR and booster, despite knowing something was not usual about him. His ASD has been there from day one, I am only now realising how obvious it was in hind sight (like the fact xDH totally failed to bond with him - a red flag I think?)

However, I am being a little superstitious WRT DS2, he's as NT as they come, but has no speech yet, at 19 1/2 months. So I am waiting to give the MMR until he starts talking. This is a stand point entirely not based in fact, but I just can't bring myself to do it until I know he's NT!

Crunchyfrog I am in a similar position, though I didn't have any idea ds1 was autistic, the dx came 2 years ago, he is now 7, we gave ds1 the single jabs due to the MMR being in the media so much at that time. Now ds2 is 11.5 months and I'm really unsure whether to give him the MMR or not. I know the MMR did not cause ds1's autism, but like you, can't bring myself to give ds2 the jab until I know for sure he's NT.

Agree with silver.

About 7% of children with autism fit the Wakefield profile - I've had this number quoted at me a few times and it seems to fit my personal experience of the many autistic kids I know.

Autism is not one thing.

My son does not fit the wakefield pattern but some gentle biomed has helped him (especially when he was younger and had horrible bowels). If you're interested in biomed treating autism are the people to talk to.

Ds1's family background is one of no autism at all in 2 very large extended families but quite a lot if immune related disorders. Ds1 regressed following a viral illness. This 'type' seem to do quite well with biomed.

ds1 did do well with biomed inspite of the fact that we burned about £3000 on testing and DAN doctors who said that his results showed he didn't need chelation or theotherthing - they only recommended that we withdraw casein for 12-18months and reintroduce it.

I think it'll be easy for me to blame the jab because he didn't hit some 15 and 18 month milestones which may be coincidental. I think that in some cases there may be some pre-existing predispisition to autism and this may be triggered by the jabs but confirming that won't help me right now. I need results and solutions and I'm exhausted

I made sure ds2 had all the same jabs and he hit all his milestones very early. the only difference is that ds2 wasn't bf

Well said fine that is my opinion. I sometimes find that spending too much energy on trying to find something to blame takes away from helping our dc's.

No! For our DC's who already have Autism it may or may not be relevant to find out if something caused it.

But to all those other kids who haven't had their jabs yet - or haven't even been born - it is incredibly important to find out which subset of children are more likeley to have problems with the jabs!

I wasn't interested in blaming something. I felt knowledge would help make decisions for ds2 & ds3. Neither have any signs of autism at all although ds3 certainly had many risk factors.

We didn't go down the route of lots of bioned testing so didn't spend much. Ds1 definitely benefits from vitamin A. He also needed to be gluten free for a while and we've fixed his bowels. He also did well on fish oils - basic stuff - but we can't get that into him.

He's 11 now so we're a long way from anticipating that he'll become high functioning but I'm still interested in what happened to him and how that fits in with all the other autoimmune conditions in the family. Will hopefully help ds2 and ds3 make decisions if they ever have children.

The last 2 paeds we've seen and the neuro we saw last year are all moving towards seeing biomed as relevant in some cases. They've ordered tests and referrals for ds1 on the NHS.

I find it just about bearable to listen to people spouting shite about 'parents needing something to blame' on the main board.
I find it less easy to hear on SN

As it happens DS did regress a la Wakefield. But I don't give a shit why he regresed. wakefields research re gut damage is the thing that helped me pull DS2 back from more serious problems including self harm and made him feel better.
He spent several years of his life in pain withhis huge gut problem. Understanding that made him happier and pain free. It had fuck all to do with my having any desire to blame someone.
And is seems to have helped DD grow up without any of the same problems.

Labelling some of our own community as emotional fools who will be swayed by any nonsense because we want to blame someone is not especially helpful

Actually the last paed I saw said (without prompting) she felt that if there was a group of children susceptible to the MMR they should be identified before it was administered.

Yes I did need to be picked up off the floor.

I like her, hope she stays around for a while.