Do you reckon a child with Aspergers and dispraxia can pass the 11+?

[LadyBiscuit]

That's probably a 'how long is a piece of string' question but I would appreciate your thoughts (and apologies in advance for this being v long)

My nephew was diagnosed with ASD when he was 7. He struggles at school but has done much better since he left his horrid pre-prep school and moved to a really brilliant State School with SENCO support. He is making good progress but it is still like pulling teeth trying to get him to focus on any homework etc and he usually misses a fair amount of breaktime because he hasn't finished his work during lessons. He's very easily distracted and doesn't see the point of a lot of the stuff he learns (although he can quote you chapter and verse on whatever his current obsession is - at the moment it's Mario).

He is a summer baby so young for his year and also quite emotionally immature (sorry if this sounds like a character assassination - I love him to bits but am just trying to give you a full picture). Having said all that, he is bright, he is funny and he has some good friends.

Next year he has to go to secondary school and my sister has decided that she doesn't want to send him to a state school where they live but instead try again to go private (he applied for every single prep school in the area when he left his pre-prep and was turned down). The school she is looking at for him is not one of the best schools where they live but it still makes children do an 11+ exam and selects on the basis of academic ability and potential.

He is already moaning about the extra revision/cramming his parents want him to do in advance of the exam in December and my sister has told him that he has to work hard or he will 'end up going to the nasty school where the other children carry knives'. She said this to him when I was on the phone to him yesterday morning and I was really shocked but didn't say anything.

She is hugely, hugely defensive/sensitive about his SEN and doesn't like discussing it. But I worry that she's setting him up for failure and worse, that if he doesn't get in, he is going to be absolutely bloody terrified of going to the (not that bad really) local state school.

Should I talk to her? I'm bricking it but I'm so anxious about him that I sort of feel that I have to say something.

In haste, as about to sit down to eat, but you might want to post this on SN Children too. This bit is not always very well frequented.

Will be back later to post properly

Yes a child with those SN can most certainly pass the 11+

my AS 7yo could pass it now without any difficulty at all

if you could get him to stop eating his sleeves and squeaking for long enough to sit the actual papers

I don't know about your DN, it's very hard to have a valid perspective without knowing any of you - but I definitely don't think you can generalise about the potential academic future of a child on the basis of AS and dyspraxia alone

however a sad fact is that many of these children do not achieve what they are capable of because the support, understanding and common sense needed to help them integrate into their peer groups is lacking.

I think the question is not whether he could pass but whether he would thrive in the school environment of the private school.

Greeny - that's the issue. It's the focus bit. I have no doubt that he has the intelligence, it's being able to sit in an exam room and perform bit that scares me. When he was doing his prep school exams he just got up and wandered off. Didn't see the point of doing something boring. I know he's older but the pain of doing his homework is exhausting.

And it's not just the bit about his capability, it's the bit about the school with knives stuff that does my head in.

I adore my sister by the way which is why I find this very hard. And she has recently been diagnosed with cystic fibrosis and is on DLA which is making everything 100x harder. Not least because if he does get in and the homework is really demanding, I have no idea how the fuck she's going to cope with that.

Soupy - that is the other thing too. There are very complicated reasons why they're thinking of this but I'm not sure they're the right reasons for him. He says he wants to firebomb his pre-prep and the headmistress told my sister (just before he got his DX) that there was nothing wrong with him that a good smacking wouldn't sort out so I am deeply dubious about private schools being able to cope with children who are 'different'

Why doesn't she want him to go to the state school?
Is she worried about him being bullied, or that the school won't fulfill his needs academically? If she's very defensive and thus reluctant to look at him and his needs clear-sighted, it's going to be a difficult conversation for you to have with her, and she may get very stroppy with you. Which isn't easy to move on from.
Yes, it's perfectly possible for him to pass the 11+ if he has the academic ability and practices so that he knows what's required, but it doesn't sound as if he's that keen, or that she can support him at home appropriately.
Does his dyspraxia support include using a scribe or a laptop?
My AS DS is heading for GCSEs this year, looking at good grades and A levels.
If you do decide to talk to her, stay very calm and logical, have what you want to say clear in your mind beforehand. You sound like a great auntie with the best of intentions.

Her husband is from a background where all the children go to 'very good' public schools and his mother is paying for the education. I think that part of it is that she doesn't want him to miss out on the financial benefits (god that sounds bitchy but I think it has something to do with it). She lives in an area of South London where there are a lot of excellent public schools but the nearest state school is really good so I'm a bit bemused as to why that has been rejected. And I can only think it's because he will be the only child going to state school of all of them.

I am not going to go into details with my conversation - was just going to say that I am concerned that if he doesn't get in, then he might be frightened if he ends up having to go to the (outstanding) state school given her conversation about the knives. Even that is giving me the fear. But thank you for saying I'm a good auntie. I worry about them all. She's my baby sister and she's been so ill over the past couple of years that I am worried for all of them

Sorry should have edited that post for repetition!

Sounds like a plan to me, and perhaps you can find out about the provision at the state school for SN and how good it is. Then try and help her build a more positive image in her own mind
It's hard to have to rewrite what you thought your child would be doing with their life in the light of facts. Rather like what often happens in a marriage.
They are all going to need support as time rolls on, and if you are emotionally strong enough it seems as if you're well placed to help them see that it's not all doom and knives.

I can understand where your sister is coming from. DS also has AS and dyspraxia but when he was first undergoing the dx process, I looked at a lot of private mainstream schools for him. He has a very high IQ, but like your nephew, he couldn't apply it to the exam situation. He gets anxious in new environments and at one school, refused point blank to enter the very crowded exam hall. Nowadays I look back incredulously at trying to put him through that . In my defence, we were still unsure of his dx and all I knew for sure was that he was very bright and a bit odd.

We're also in London and when I spoke to some of the private schools, they were actually quite open to accepting mild SEN, as long as the pupils could do well academically and didn't have behaviour issues. DS was offered extra time in the entrance exams and use of a laptop, and some schools allowed him to take it in a separate room. There were also some London grammars which said that they had mild AS pupils. So I wouldn't dismiss private schools altogether (City of London and Latymer stand out in my memory as being particularly mild-SEN friendly).

Then again, your nephew's difficulties sound a bit more than mild, and possibly with behavioural issues (which also became a problem with DS as he went through primary).

I can also understand her worries about the state secondary. Not slagging of state schools in general, but AS pupils are so much more vulnerable to bullying and DS wouldn't have coped in a big secondary mainstream. And our local schools really do have issues with knives and gangs.

The solution for us in the end was to send DS to a special AS school. Our LA is paying the fees as it's named on his statement - hard fought for and needing specialist legal help to take it through a tribunal. It sounds like she has financial resources so I would recommend she look at some of the more academic SEN schools, e.g. Centre Academy, Fairley House, the Moat School. They have the feel of a private school but the pupils need more input than in mainstream, there is specialist tuition and very small classes, SALT etc. Or she could look further afield at residential schools run by Priory or Cambian (will have to fight very hard for a funded place there).

Oh, and if his needs aren't too severe, she could consider one of Quaker schools, e.g. St Christopher (Letchworth). They do have an entrance exam but it's not as competitive as London schools, plus there's a much more inclusive feel to it.

Thank you so much everyone - really appreciate it.

Piddlepaddle - it's really useful hearing your perspective. The local school is a very good school but it does have a much above average number of children with SEN and my sister feels that would mean that her DS won't get enough attention. But I'm not at all convinced that she's asked about what kind of support he will get in the private school (and there is nothing on their website).

I have made her sound like a totally pushy mother and she isn't really - she just is really struggling to accept that there is an issue.

Some times a school with a higher level of SN also has a much better level of understanding and expertise, and knows how to access help effectively from outside agencies.
ou vcan also hope that there's a much greater level of understanding an acceptance from peers or parents.
I did say sometimes, my son's MS school is like this, other schools in the area less so.

That's been his school experience so far - the school that was equipped to deal with it = great, the school that wasn't = hugely traumatic. Past experience would suggest that it's at least worth going to have a look at the state school (and asking him which one he'd prefer to go to although now he thinks every other child has a flick knife in their back pocket we're not really operating on a level playing field anymore)

The good schools guide gives a lot of information about SEN. If it doesn't list provision at the school your sister is trying to get her son into then there may well be none. Most private schools near here do now give extra time etc but the pupils still have to be able to pass exams well enough.

I would also recommend the Good Schools Guide (separate SEN version). Gabbitas also produce a guide which has lists of private schools and the type of SEN pupils they currently have.

Does your nephew have a statement? If so, he would get priority for the parents' first choice state school, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the nearest one. Even if he doesn't have a statement, he may get his needs taken into account during the application process.

It's definitely worth calling prospective schools (state and private) to ask about their provision/experience with AS/dyspraxia (best to get a separate appointment with the SENCO rather than asking on the general open evening). You can't judge a school on their SEN provision just by looking at their SEN numbers or results, SEN children can be so different and so much of it comes down to attitude and flexibility.

I actually think the biggest issue is going to be his parents' acceptance of his SEN. Every parent goes through a grieving process after dx and it sounds like she is still going through that. Does your sister have access to any local support groups for ASD?

Thanks re advice. I have no idea about local support groups - I know she's never even been on the ASD website so I doubt she's got in touch. As I said earlier, she was diagnosed with CF earlier this year and has been in and out of hospital a lot so she is struggling to come to terms with a lot of stuff. Last time I was there though I did see that he had a book about having asperger's which I was pleased to see as originally they were not going to tell him about his dx.

We have a couple of months now before the entrance exam. I think I will suggest she at least looks at both schools as I don't think she has and frame it that way. Up until recently she was planning on applying to the local school but someone said something to her which made her change her mind.

He isn't statemented but his DX did mean he got into a very good primary school which is heavily oversubscribed and not their nearest so presumably that had something to do with that.

Suggest sister in law try Bruern Abbey near Bicester

He may be able to pass the 11 plus. Byt making him doing extra revision and cramming will be very hard on him, DD3 18 has Dyspraxia. She is a very determined young lady but when she was younger it took her twice as long to complete homework then her peers, Mainly because being dysprasic she had to work twice as hard, People with dyspraxia ofetn find it hard to remeber things they have learnt.

Friends' bright ds with dyspraxia went as a boarder to Shiplake near Windsor and is doing well academically and socially. He reckons half the kids have a learning 'difference' but you wouldnt know it from the results.