attatchment disorder

[babybear5]

Hi there..I am new to mumsnet so i am hoping you will all bare with me. I am trying to find out about attatchment disorder. I have a 9 year old who has global developmental delay with no diagnosis of anything. She was adopted by us when she was 2and half and after asking for help with what i felt was a declining relationship social services got involved (long story..but not detremental to child). They say it is emotional abuse and i am now going down the road of attachment disorder but would love to hear from anyone who has knowledge or understanding of this.

Thank sumum..sometimes it is good just to air these things with people in the same situation. fingers crossed it all turns out okay.

good advice. Ur right we have already been turned down for family therapy without any assessments being done and when i did some research there is only 1% funding available for this in the area..so yes it is easier to blame us instead

I have to say, like Star, I also have issues with dx of attachment disorder. The symptoms you describe are very similar to those of other children who have been dxd with GDD or other physical-based disabilities. I don't understand how you can rule that out if your child hasn't been properly examined yet.

It's a personal bugbear of mine because CAMHS initially said that DD had attachment disorder, because she'd had to go into ICU when she was first born. I got a second opinion and she was dxd ASD. She now goes to an ASD school where it's clear to all of the specialists who work with her that that is the correct dx. I haven't been able to get the AD dx removed, but to be honest it's never mentioned any more and generally dismissed as misguided.

I can't help but feel from reading from these boards that CAMHS and SS in particular are keen to leap on parenting/attachment issues as a first choice dx (especially for those with ASD children, as many the symptoms can be similar). Obviously with adoption many children will come from difficult backgrounds but that doesn't preclude the possibility of them having other dx as well.

babybear, in your situation I can't understand why you'd be accused of emotional abuse after you've successfully raised your birth children and been thoroughly assessed and cleared for adoption by SS. You also say that your relationship started to break down 4 years ago yet she has lived with you for 6.5 yrs so why wouldn't the problems have shown in the beginning? It doesn't add up to me.

babybear i have been thinking of your post all night (up with the baby) and I think your situation is very complicated. your daughter is different to my lo in that my lo's abuse has caused his ggd, whereas it sounds as if your dd would have ggd whatever the circumstance of her birth.

However that doesn't mean she can't have Ad in addition to her other needs. And if she does it is not your fault or anything you have done in parenting her. So noone should be blaming you, they should be helping. When she was a baby were there any drug related problems in pregnancy and did she have a lot of contact with birth parents in the early months. Contact disrupts the bond forming between the foster carer and baby and can lead to AD.

Children with Ad are very controlling, like to be in charge and are overly attention seeking.

I think you will need to seperate out your dd's behavoiurs into which may be being caused by other conditions (asd?) and get them assessed and supported and which behavoiurs may be due to AD and if you think some of her behavoiurs are due to AD then look to get dx.

AD is never the fault of adopters, it happens in the first few months and is not your fault. I cannot stress that enough.

Good luck again.

Have scouted through this thread but just wanted to put something down for you. The attachment theory comes from a bloke called Bowlby, you can google him and you will get information. However, Social Services should also consider Winnicott's "good enough mother" - you can also google Donald Winnicott.

However, I have a personal bugbear about labelling mothers/children with this disorder if there are special needs - I think you should try and get hold of some research involving 55 families from Van Ilzdendoorn et al (Holland): Parental Sensitivity and Attachment in Children with ASD: Comparison with Children with Mental Retardation, with Language Delays; with typical Development (2007) has found:

·Attachment Theory is unable to explain the ?disordered attachments? in children with a major social impairment (asd) ? (Mary Ainsworth?s Strange Situation Procedure was used (SSP), ie the strange room, the stranger and the coming and going of the care giver).

·Parents do not cause disordered attachment in their ASD children.

·Attachment based therapies are inappropriate and counter-productive for asd?s.

This study in Holland showed that 40% of the children who took part were ?attachment disorganised? although no connection was found between ?parental sensitivity and attachment security in the group of children with asd? and therefore attachment criteria for ?sensitive parenting? may be inadequate for developmental and neurological problems in children.

Van Ilzdendoorn (2007) concluded that children with less severe asd predicted more attached security, however overall the paper challenged the validity of Bowlby?s theory.

Interestingly, a further study was undertaken by Rutgers (2007) Autism, Attachment and Parenting: A Comparison of Children with ASD, Mental Retardation, Language Disorder and Non Clinical Children (89 families took part) and the outcome was that, although, children with asd were related as being less secure compared to the other clinical and normal comparison groups, it stated that parents coped remarkably well with the challenges of raising a child with asd.

I hope it helps.

Agree with above: attachment disorder is rare but exists, is not the parents fault, is partially treatable. It is not due to you dealing out emotional abuse. And it's easily confused with asd and other conditions, or can complicate them.

Whichever diagnosis is correct, an emotional behavioural social disability will inevitably stretch your relationships and parenting skills to the max, and expose you to professionals of varying usefulness. Plus all the judgy things people will say to damage your confidence, and enhance your general maternal guilt.

I'd call that a special need... So welcome to the board!

I am and also a bit at the suggestions on this thread that attchment disorder does not exist or is 'a bit of an American idea' .

You clearly have not ever fostered or adopted a child whose early life has involved neglect, emotional unavailability and physical abuse. My daughter has been living with us for seven years (according to a poster above, this should be 'about the time it takes to sort it'... - says who?!), her ealry life contained all these things and I fully expect to be living with her attachment disordered behaviour forever.

Some subtle, some overtly controlling and attention seeking behaviour, it is widely acknowledged that progress with regard to attachment disorder is slow at best, extremely limited as the norm and non-existent in some cases. It is relentless and tiring and heartbreaking, but with each little breakthrough you know that it is worth it.

For any of you who are sceptical about attachment disorder, click on this link for a glimpse, and - just for a moment - imagine how it would feel if no matter how consistently you parented your child or how strongly you loved them you knew deep deep in your heart of hearts that they did not trust you (or did not know how) and did not expect you to be able to care for them........welcome to my life.....

MPD

AD is real and should not be confused with asd, although sadly professionals often do confuse them especially in the early years. It is also possible to have the effects of AD with other disabilities (such as LD, ASD, FAS, ADHD,).
I would also advise Adoption UK.

I have worked with a child and still do with attachment disorder who is coming through it in school and is no longer violent angry etc. Things do change.

It is a real condition in my eyes.

MissPollysdolly
it was me who said about "american idea"
please read my post again-i was saying that at that time.........more of a american idea.
and i was saying about at that time it was feared that it was being used to basically attack parents of children with autism.
i hadnt heard no more about it.[since then]
i didnt say "its a american idea"as in-
these days its a american idea and its a tripe idea.
i appologise if my post come across as this and i appologise if ive offended anyone-this wasnt my intention.
[i hope this all makes sense-finding it hard to put myself across properly today]

Sparky - I appreciate your apology - thank you - and do know that the worst thing about MNet is that in type, things don;t always come across as you intend or ar misconstrued by the reader. However, just to clarify - your post contains this line (to which I was referring) - 'yep-i agree with StarlightMckenzie.
i heard about this attatchment disorder about 8 or 9 years ago-and i think it was more of a american idea.'

It was scepticism within this thread that I found beggared belief and comments made by people who clearly have no idea what Attachment Disorder is in the first place or feels like to have to live with. To hear other posters saying that they are sceptical of its existence, that it is a label and to think they have the knowledge to judge how and how long it will take to be 'sorted' just made my blood boil, tbh.

We had a session life-story work for DD with an Attachment therapist yesterday - dealing with some pretty hard and complex stuff relating to her early life, neglect and abuse - so maybe it was just all a bit too real for me by the time I got to this thread... MPD

Oh, and to add to mariagoretti's point about AD being considered a special need - I thoroughly agree, though it is difficult to get this recognised, since such a lot of the difficulties are causes are relational and furthermore are confined to the home or very intimate environments. We have managed to (successfully) claim DLA for DD (middle rate) on the grounds of her Attachment disordered behaviour and the need for us to 'externally regulate' her all the time.

I am fairly convinced, however, that we only get this because we have always got DLA for her since adopting her at the age of three and half. At this time it was awarded - on higher rate - because she requried such a lot of physical care from her foster carer and was up a lot in the nights etc etc. Over the years as we have come to have this payment reviewed we have managed to keep it but on the ground outlined above - and have had it reduced to middle rate.

I strongly suspect that if we had applied for it purely on the grounds that we now get it for, our claim would have fallen totally flat. So the victory is small - yet still a victory! I do appreciate how hard it is to get DLA. To have AD recognised as that much of a 'special need' to the DLA board I think is quite significant. MPD

MissPollysDolly
i was looking at things from the autism angle and thinking about what i was hearing a few years ago[from the autism angle]
i now realise that this is a very real condition and i appologise to everyone i might of offended.
i was wrong and i should of thought more before i posted.
my appology is genuine.

Hi sumum
Sorry was able to get back to you yesterday...children lol x There were drugs and alcohol involved in my daughters pregnancy and two of her siblings have fetal alcohol syndrome and one was placed for re adoption four years after being first adopted due to being 'difficult'. She is one of 7! She has had no contact with her birth mother or any family member. I have received replies from post adoption counscelling in my area and barnardos so i am hoping they can help. I have also been told that i am entitled to see all social work files on her till now...which may be interesting!! here's hoping we can turn this around. I seem to have started a debate on this thread but i do believe AD exists but can be very hard to diagnose and easily misdiagnosed. Thank you for your kind words and keep up the good work. Those kiddies need you x

Hi misspollysdolly

I agree with you on the DLA. We to received dla on the highest rate since we adopted DD at 2 and half..due to needing physical care, night time care etc and it to went down to low rate when we had to reapply. I agree that we prob wouldn't get it again should we have apply on the grounds that she has no named condition.

Hi Sparky

Thanks for that..I am now completely befuddled by it all and didn't mean to cause such a heated debate lol. Just trying to find answers. I can see where you were coming from tho and there is obviously a lot of people out there who feel very strongly about this. I do believe that it depends on the area you live and the resources available as to the diagnosis you get!

Thanks to everyone who answered my cry for help. It is good to know that we are not alone.
p.s probably being really thick...'baby brain'...but what is ASD?

Thank maryz...some more research for me to do i think

What ever the special need there are often common difficulties with obtaining services and support for our youngsters. With adopted children often the lack of a full history ( ie not knowing family histories or if drugs or alcohol could have effected prenatal development) can confuse the picture and lead to extreme delays in diagnosis.
It is important to get as full an assessment of the childs full needs as possible as a basis to support the best therapeutic parenting. Ds was not diagnosed with autism till 8 dispite classic signs because his difficult early life was assumed to be the cause by peadiatricians and SW automatically blame the (ie my) parenting which was not helpful when you want the best for your child and need support not condemnation!! We had expected AD so parented with this in mind - but understanding he also has autism (and LD) has been helpful. I have heard that combinations of disabilities are more common in adopted than birth children. Ds got DLA after his ASD DX (he was in SN school with high staff to child ratio by then).
I have heard that Family futures (in London?)are very good at working with families.

Thank you Magso....I know what you mean about SW blaming the parents..nightmare. Is it a cop out perhaps?! cheaper than getting down to the real problem.. So many problems which could be so many syndromes and working it out is difficult let alone getting the right support.

I have finally found a lovely lady at Barnardos who is looking into our case. I have e mailed her all details and we will be added to the waiting list in our area for meeting, either for myself, myself and husband and for family. May only take 6-8 weeks before we are seen. Yippee...result!!!! We could be on the way to some family therapy of sorts which will definately help