toilet training (again!)

[Saker]

I have been true to my resolve of trying to potty train Ds2 during the summer holidays and so far we have been going nearly three weeks. We have had slightly more success than I anticipated as I have found that he sits willingly on the potty and if I sit him on and he needs a wee at that time he will go immediately. Amazingly his nappies have been dry for several nights and he has woken a couple of times in the night and I have sat him on the potty and he has gone straightaway. So I guess from this he is able to hold on to it for a good while and to control when he goes to some extent.

However.... if I don't sit him on the potty regularly he never asks to go, he just goes on the floor. He usually tells me after that he has, and I go through the "next time you could tell me and you could sit on the potty" but it has no effect.

So does anyone have any suggestions as to how to encourage him to communicate that he needs to go. Should I just carry on sitting him at regular intervals and mopping up in between and hope it comes? Or is there a way I could reinforce it more?

hiya
sounds like my ds last dec. was nowhere near ready - couldnt ask to go, didnt say he'd already gone on floor etc...

so left it. back in nappies and tried him again 2 wks ago. much better now. is able say he needs a wee and happily pulls shorts/pants down sits on potty and does one. occasionally says few times and doesnt do anything. but also now he can hold on - ive been able to leave him in pants when we go out but change mats, spare pants, shorts when we do. guarantee as soon as we get down the road or at the place we're going he says he needs a wee. so i say 'can you wait til we go home shortly'. as he has no concept of time i'll also say 'lets just go to this shop then we'll go home' or 'five minutes and we're going home for you to sit on potty......'
soon as we get back i tell/ask him to sit on potty and try, and he does, in his words a "massive wee" !

my advice is that perhaps he isnt quite ready but do keep using the potty at regular intervals in the day. the communication will come in time as we found. he is now 4.5 yo. however he will not go on the toilet yet. potty only! so we've still got a way to go. and night time too.

sorry caNT BE MUCH MORE HELP BUT ITS JUST TIME I THINK. (sorry for the capitals - typing fast)!!

Message withdrawn

He was 4 a couple of weeks ago. You might be right that he's not ready Charlie. He has a lot of dyspraxic type symptons as well as language difficulties so he has problems with his body awareness and he doesn't have the physical ability to get his trousers up and down or even sit down on the potty without help. However when I sit him on he does seem to concentrate and then go so he obviously has some control. Or if he doesn't go straightaway I can be pretty sure he doesn't want to and just let him get off again.

I trained at 3.7 & for at least 6 months later would say every five minutes " Do you need the toilet, are you sure you don't need the toilet?"!! Weeing was not too painful but pooing went on for a few months. Very soul destroying! I agree with others that rather than get stressed put nappies back on & try agin in a few weeks. I have only just taken off nappies at night at 4.10 & still getting a wet bad every week or so. Ho hum

Thanks for the advice everyone. At the moment I am not very stressed about it at all. I so little expected any success that the limited amount I have had has been a pleasant surprise. It helps having a disgusting flowery living room carpet that is a hundred years old and doesn't show anything - the only trouble is when you are trying to locate a poo that has been trodden all around the room .

I have been putting Ds2 back into pullups to go out and sometimes at home when I haven't got the energy to deal with accidents but otherwise he has mostly been in pants and a t-shirt or nothing. He seems to know the difference because he tells me if he wees when in pants but not in pull-up.

It's hard to find a reward that he wants as he is not very motivated by material things. We have a sort of star chart which is a picture of a pond and he can stick animals in it (he loves anything jumping in the water). He enjoys doing this but he doesn't usually remember to ask for it after doing a wee. He does enjoy the praise though.

I'm glad to hear you are having some success Socci. Hopefully asking will come eventually to Ds2 also. I will continue at a gentle pace and see how we go. This was always going to be a hard one for us because of Ds2's motor problems in addition to everything else.

We let him watch tv on the potty but the trouble with that is that he now asks for the potty if he wants to watch tv !

Saker, I'm not sure from your post if or how verbal your child is. But I still think that visual strategies work very well. A BIG toilet picture which you could start by handing TO him every time you go and then try to prompt him to give it to you, even if you are taking him iyswim. Also a simple sequence, just to reinforce the whole process with a picture of the treat at the end. Say a picture toilet, flush, wash hands or pull up pants in a column with stars in a column so a star is stuck on for each part of the sequence with a place for the chosen treat at the end. HTH

Davros,

He is quite verbal - he can talk in sentences but can get quite muddled and it's pretty certain his receptive language is behind his speech. However he does ask for other things e.g. a drink, to go on the trampoline etc and in fact he actually asks to sit on the potty but only because he sees it as a means to watch television. Part of the problem is that he has poor motor planning so any sequence of actions is difficult and I'm not sure he would be able to get organised to find the picture and use it. I made him a story about him learning to use the potty which he loves to read. Perhaps I should simplify that down and really emphasise the asking bit now he has got the idea of sitting.

My ds is four in Sept and we are still struggling - he is getting much better and sometimes even asks to go, but generally I have to prompt/take him regularly or he has an accident. It is very stressful!
He will get there in the end Saker, and I agree, motor planning problems make it much harder.

We've ditched the potty in favour of the toilet, as I think ds also just sat on the potty to watch bloody cbeebies
Toilet focuses his mind better, I think.

If he has problems with motor planning and sequencing then I think a short, simple sequence would help. You keep it in the bathroom or where the potty is, and just go through it by pointing to each picture and placing a star next to it once completed. He doesn't have to DO much himself, just try to follow the sequence with lots of prompting that I would think would break down the task more clearly. As for asking using a big toilet picture, I would suggest getting it FOR him and referring to it while on the way to the bathroom/potty and then get him to hold it. Put that one somewhere really obvious, if not carry it around with you/him. Sorry if this still doesn't sound useful!

Can I hijack this for a second? My ds is 3.5 and has ASD, he's pretty much non-verbal and I would like to see if he is ready for toilet training. How would be the best way to go about it and am I expecting too much from him at this age?
Thanx.

OOOPS I've killed it!!!

Ds is my only child and his receptive language is what I call "selective". He understands somethings I say and other times he looks at me like I have 2 heads or something.

Aloha - yes I think we will have to graduate to the toilet just in order to cope with going out, however I am not in a hurry to get to that yet. Is your Ds able to do any of it for himself or do you have to help with getting his trousers up and down etc? Again I am not trying to attempt anything except to get him to tell me when he wants to go. Bless him - occasionally he tries to sit on it by himself and he sort of reverses from the side towards it with his trousers still on and misses completely .

We had a very successful day today where he has been dry for 24h including through the night and going out for 2.5h this morning. However I have still had to sit him at intervals, he hasn't asked except possibly first thing this morning when he said "my nappy is sore" and he stopped saying that after he had done a wee.

Davros, I will try the picture and I think simplifying the sequence will be helpful. His portage worker uses pictures to show him what activity we are going to do next but he doesn't always take much notice of them. However he does love the stories about himself washing his hands and using the potty that I have made with photographs so maybe if he is in the picture it would help. Thank the Lord for digital cameras (and laminators but you don't need me to tell you that .)

Spursmum, I think it is important to see if he is physically ready - i.e. can he manage to stay dry for at least an hour and preferably more. Also whether he shows any indication when he is wet or dirty. Having said that Ds2 never cared (and still doesn't) if he is but just sitting him regularly has seemed to help him to get the idea a bit although as you can see we have a way to go. I think also you need to choose a time when you have plenty of time to devote to it and feel able to cope with lots of accidents. That's why I waited until the summer holidays when I didn't have to get Ds1 to school and Ds2 to nursery.

Thanx for that. His nursery are trying with him but he seems to have no interest in sitting there. He has days when he is dry for over 2 hours and some days seems like he is constantly weeing.
He doesn't seem to care if he is wet or dirty(he doesn't indicate if his nappy is full) and I'm not bothered with the accidents, I just don't want to rush him into this if he is not ready.

Saker, I think your ds is doing really well. With ds I do have to help/prompt him at every micro-stage - get your step stool, climb on, pull down your shorts and pants...here, I'll help...no! don't take them off, just down!....now wriggle back...further, that's it, stop, have you done one? Can you feel it coming? Well done!/never mind, you tried...that's it, wriggle off, onto your step stool, let's help you with those shorts and pants...no, don't run off, flusht the toilet, OK, thats enough flushing...WASH YOUR HANDS!.. get your step stool, stand on it...there, I've turned on the tap, here's the soap, rub your hands, PROPERLY!, that's it...you can stop rubbing now...rinse...here, I'll help you...I'll turn off the tap now... off the step stool, dry your hands....HERE, this towel...good boy, well done, off you go!

Sound familiar??

Mind you he actually asked while we were in a cafe after nursery. So pleased and proud. Mind you he did have an accident at nursery and they take him all the time. Onward and upward eh?!

Telling you is the main bit I agree, but ditching the potty has been good for us.

Aloha - I love your description. It sounds like he is gradually getting the idea though if he is telling you sometimes. Ds2 gets so involved in things that I'm not sure it crosses his mind. I wonder if that's why he's better in the night when his mind is empty of everything else.

I have to admit our version is a lot more physical. Basically me pulling down pants, sitting him down, trying to keep his hands out so the wee does at least go in the potty instead of in the air. I have found though that I don't need to take him that often only every 1-2h depending on when he's had a drink. Poos are a different matter and we have had had no success there yet.

Oh, yes, "NO! Don't put your hands there!" does come into it, I will admit.
Ds gets really absorbed in stuff too. It's a pain isn't it? Really frustrating.