AS/Handwriting/Homework

[Tiggles]

Sorry, I feel like I am starting loads of threads, but I am getting lots of good advice .

DS1 (8) has just finished yr3. He has always had problems with handwriting. The school he was at in reception dealt with it really baddly, which eventually got to the point that not only did he come to believe that he couldn't write, but also that he couldn't do any of his school work either. eg. he couldn't draw 9 tiny bees - with wings and stripes, his page looked a mess, so teacher wrote DS can't count to 9 on it (Despite verbally he could count into the hundreds) DS came home unable to count to 9 - started counting in wrong order.
When he got into yr1 the paed referrred him to OT for his writing and other general skills (eg no confidence to do PE). They decided that the school had induced a phobia to him for writing and it was going to take a lot of time for him to even get the confidence to try and write. So I started to home-ed him and he did no writing - he dictated work and I wrote it down, to try and get him believing that he could mentally do the work.
When we moved I put him back into school in yr2 where his teacher didn't make him do any writing, he chose to do a small amount. Which was great for his confidence.
Then he started in yr3 and he had to write...
His writing has improved through the year, but it is still atrocious - it concerns his teacher enough that at the beginning of next year she is going to make the whole class learn to write for a term (it is a yr3/4 class, and other children also write baddly having had the 'you don't need to write from previous teacher).
I don't want DS to get back into the "I can't do the work, because I don't write it down" mode he was in before, and get the impression this is going to start happening. Apparently verbally he will get the answers right in class, but when he has to do written work he just sits and stares around the classroom - unless it is history (his obsession) where he will write loads, although it is very hard to read what he has written.
So he has 2 issues - the first is working out what to write and how to organise it, eg his teacher asks him to write a story, if he can't write starwars (his other obsession) then he just sits and cries because he can't think of anything to write. The other is his actual writing as he thinks that his writing is now ok. He couldn't understand why his teacher said his writing was a problem on his report. He has also argued with the teacher before, when she has said "Write bigger as people can't read writing that smalll", he replies "I am a person, I can read it, it is fine".

So, I am trying to help him to write better over the holidays, but he isn't too happy about that - firstly as he thinks his writing is ok, secondly, because he doesn't want to do school work at home.

So, any tips how to get around that?

Also, sorry this is going to make this really long, but saves a separate thread. DSs teacher has another child in the class with a dx of AS, who has 1:1 support. She was reading the class a book about AS and she said that DS was sitting there thinking "This sounds like me". I know it struck a chord with him because he came home to ask about the literal language aspects - Mummy X wouldn't understand why you would say "Great" if he dropped a cup...Why would you say Great?
Because he in some way identified with the description of AS, his teacher who says she can see loads of AS traits in him, thinks he must be in the normal range and can't have AS. Therefore he isn't on any from of school action etc. Now he should be getting assessed in October, so won't kick up a fuss at school before that, if he gets a dx should I expect some help from them? eg he struggles baddly in group work - if the group don't do what he wants he won't do what they want and refuses to work.
And is that true - if he has AS he wouldn't be able to associate with the traits?

Sounds barmy to me too, speaking as a teacher and a parent. My boy definitely can identify commonalities between stories, books, actors on TV all discussing ASD traits and relate it to himself.
Sounds as if the teacher has been on a half day course on ASDs run by professionals. With the afternoon session on 'creativity in maths' or some such.
So, writing. To get started, he needs writing frames, story outlines to elaborate on, writing from first hand experiences, sentence starters, small achievable focused tasks that enable him to tackle stuff one step at a time. He needs structure so he knows what he's doing, what the expectations are. he needs help to organise and know how to begin, and that won't come by osmosis.
If the learning intention is that he can count to 9, it shouldn't depend on anything else like drawing or a knowledge of bees. Teacher needs to be more specific and inventive about what she's doing and how to assess. Yes. I know that was reception but it links into stuff like reading comprehensions in KS2. Can he dictate responses instead of being judged on his writing? use multiple choice responses created for him?
Using technology for longer pieces, like a laptop.
Separating creating work from writing, so that he's either concentrating on writing or composing. So he creates, TA scribes, he then copies out his own work. That sort of thing.
If the teacher and the school haven't got a clue, they need to access outside support for him and them, so that they can tailor his education to his needs. Senco needs to get sorted and up to speed.
That makes him SA+

As part of my DD1's diagnostic process her psychologist asked me to show her some youtube films about AS and report back whether she recognised herself in them. She very much did and got her dx. Therefore I would say your teacher's assumption is way off the mark.

The teacher shouldn't be linking his support with whether she thinks he'll get a dx. His support should only be dictated by his needs. I think you should ask for him to see the educational psychologist who will be able to advise the teacher as to the best strategies to support him. His handwriting difficulties should not be allowed to affect his performance in other areas of the curriculum so he perhaps he should have access to a laptop or a TA to scribe for him as Goblinchild suggests.

You know your child best so make sure you don't feel too intimidated to tell the teacher if her plans will set him back. Your opinion counts for a lot so don't be afraid to share it in a clear, constructive way.

Good luck.

My son now types as much of his work as he can to get around the handwriting issue. (He's going into year 5)

I kind of figured we could spend a lot of energy / stress getting his writing to an acceptable level - or he could just learn to type. ( Luckily school agree with us.)

His grades nowhere near represent his ability. And I'm trying to chill about it - but finding it hard. For example although he confidently reads adult books at home, and is allowed to read the highest level reading books they have at school (level 5) - He's only been assessed as a level 3 at reading - because you have to write the answers to the reading comprehension questions.

So no easy answers. If you want to improve his handwriting I can recommend:
Write from the start
Speed Up
handwriting without tears

If you want to learn to type I can recommend
BBC
Nessy Fingers

But, with an ASD child it is soooo hard to get them to do anything that I despair. School have done a great job of building up my son's confidence - but now he thinks he doesn't need to work on his writing because there's nothing wrong with it.

As for the bit about knowing what to write... GoblinChild gave you good advice about that. I believe there's also software called Clicker 5 that can help with this.

This year I'm going to try loads and loads of rules with my son to get his homework to improve. i.e.

1. Write as much as you can with mistakes
2. Use a spell checker to correct spelling
3. Correct punctuation
4. Get the computer to read it back to you to see if there are any mistakes left in it.
5. Print it out
6. Put it in your school bag
7. Be happy.

Oh year, We're also using text to speech software with him because he writes so badly.

Loads of great advice, thanks

Just looked up the typing on BBC site, he will enjoy that - think I will use it as a reward for handwriting practice , as he adores using my computer. Thinking about it when he has done projects on the computer he can produce a great volume of work so may see if that could be an option at school. When I was looking at pulling him out of his first school to home ed him, as a last ditch attempt by the school for me to keep him there, they did offer him a computer, but I told them it was too little too late.
His new school knew he had anxiety and had been saying to me he was absolutely fine. I said I was having big probs at home and was going to recontact CAMHS, spoke to the head (SENCO) about it as well as class teacher, who both said, he was fine and they had more concerns about other children. But they would support me, and be happy for CAMHS to see him in school etc, but there were no issues. Having been to CAMHS and they said that they thought AS and re-referred us to autism team, I respoke to the school, who then said he shows lots of Asperger symptoms, they are having to coax him out from under desks, problems with rudeness, group work issues etc etc. So was a bit put out that they had been saying he was fine and they had no issues with him whatsoever.
IF he doesn't get a dx of AS then I will probably still go into school and kick up a bit of a fuss that he needs more support - given them now acknowledging he DOES have issues, but hoping that if he does get a dx then they will take more notice. So he can get on SA/SA+ without a dx then? Is that up to the school? Can I request it and they refuse (because they have other kids in the school they have more probs with)?

Sorry, yet more questions, I am starting to feel that I am starting to fail him in the school arena. This school is def better than his first one, who left him sat under a table for two terms whilst telling me he was absolutely fine... but sounds like I should be pushing a bit harder now I know there IS an issue.

School action means that a child is receiving extra support from within school resources. This is usually in response to school or parents recognising that the child has a particular difficulty.

SA+ is when an outside professional is involved in supporting the child so this would be an educational psychologist, OT, etc.

Therefore if the school have put any measures in place to support your son he is on school action and good practice would be to draw up and Individual Education Plan in cooperation wit you and him to identify targets and how they and you will support him to meet them.

When an outside professional is involved they should have a say in drawing up the IEP if possible too because it will often include measures they recommend.

That's how it should work in theory anyway. In practice some schools make up their own system. You're probably best advised to make an appointment to see the school SENCo and ask him/her to clarify how it works in your school.

HTH

My DD's both appear to be fine at school but most definitely are not. DD1 has an AS dx now. DD2 does not have a dx but does have measures in place to support her in school and is on SA+ by virtue of the fact that the ed psych and a specialist autism teacher are involved.

I think that when your child keeps their problems under wraps at school it is very hard to get help and it's your job to make the fuss on their behalf. I wish I had done it for DD1 years ago but I believed the school staff who were telling me she was fine. She's just missed most of her first year of high school because of it.

Having a child with SN means you have to get used to being a pain in the neck at school. I take the look of despair on the teachers faces when they see me coming as a measure of my success in getting my DDs appropriate provision.

'I take the look of despair on the teachers faces when they see me coming as a measure of my success in getting my DDs appropriate provision.'

Imagine how they feel about me, a teacher with an sn child.
Nowhere to hide.

My experience with writing issues (DS2 is also almost phobic about writing) is that school staff are very quick to announce " OH, problems with writing are very common in AS, he'll just have to learn to type and have scribes in exams". They say all this without even really trying anything consistently to help him with handwriting. I have decided to do some extra work over the holidays and he can produce lovely joined up script when he is shown carefully exactly how to do it (he does beautiful drawings so no issue with co-ordination). As usual the child who doesn't pick things up at the same speed as the others is written off as unable to do it!
DS2 took a long time to be able to make up stories on demand but at 91/2 he enjoys it, so don't give up. Drama classes helped a lot.
Don't give the school the benefit of the doubt and if they don't do enough, just do some extra at home at a speed your DS can cope with.

Wow! He is on session 2 of learning to type and I can't believe how well he is doing! Handwriting is definitely more arduous but he can write m and n correctly now

Good. The right tools for the job make all the difference.