What extra help might DS need at school and how/when do I go about getting it??

[Fel1x]

Quite a big confused question but here goes...

DS1 is nearly 5. He is about to start school in September. He has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers.

His new school have been very helpful so far. They've arranged seperate induction sessions for DS in their own time(after he went to the first one with all the other children and found it too over whelming). They've also made him a great book of photos to familiarise him with the teachers and classroom etc.
They have said that they will wait till he starts and see how he gets on and then if they think he will need extra help/a 1-1, they will then apply for funding for it once they know more about him.
All seems fine so far.

BUT have spoken to a teacher friend today and she has made me worried!
She said that it is likely DS will need extra help more as he gets older but that if he has succesfully got through the first few years without it then he will be unlikely to be given any when he needs it later!
She advised me to apply for the help now.

Not sure how I can though. DS has got through pre school with no help at all (due to pretty unobservant teachers! plus the fact that it is free play and he has been able to play on the computer most of the time and the rest of the time by himself with the cars etc. He has one friend, who he is obsessive and v bossy with)
In reception I am told that its pretty much the same format. More or less free play (in DS's 2 hour induction he tells me that he played on the computer and didnt do anything else) so DS shouldnt really ahve too many problems apart from perhaps socially.

Should I still try and get him extra help for this year? What extra help can I say he will need? and how do I do this without pissing off the teacher who has been so helpful to us, but has asked us to wait and see???

Where I DO foresee problems are later when DS HAS to do tasks not of his own choosing and has to do phonics etc (he hates letters only likes numbers!), or if he is doing something he enjoys and has to change tasks etc.
Also group work and concentrating enough to listen to instructions etc may be a problem I think.
Wont be able to really see any of this until a year or twos time though when they have to do sit down written work...

has DS been seen by Early Years or an Ed Psych? TBH I would go for a statement now - much harder if you leave DS to it in Reception. At the very least won't he need support with social interaction? Do school staff have any training in helping children with Aspergers?

We have an Ed Psych, who we met when we got the official diagnosis a couple of weeks ago. She seems very on the ball and it was her that arranged the individual induction sessions for DS with the school.
She has said she will liaise with the school when DS starts to get him an IEP set up as well.

On what basis could I apply for a statement though? I dont know what (if any) extra help he may need when he starts school until he gets there iyswim..

He def will need help with social interaction. His teacher has told me she has experience in this area and that she is confident she can help him socially. There is also another child due to start who has a full time 1-1 allocated to him. The teacher has said the child wont need the help all the time so DS can have some of the help instead!

Okay (although about use of other child's 1:1) - if his Aspergers doesn't cause any issues with his learning and you and the school are really confident that they can manage the social elements with no additional support then go for it. How will you handle it if you don't feel he is progressing though? You need someone with experience of this on this thread don't you?! My DD2 is starting school in September but has mild but complex SN and I would be bricking it if we hadn't got the statement sorted - your DS sounds totally different.

The areas my two had difficulty with in Reception were things like:

• carpet time

One disliked being so close to other children and the other used to sit too close. The solution was either a cushion or a carpet tile to define personal space.

• free choice

It can be overwhelming to have to make a choice from so many options and you can end up in a situation where they stick to the same activity each time. The solution was to give them a picture of just a couple of the activities and let them choose between those. That way the child still gets an element of choice but while being encouraged away from doing just the same thing each time.

• toileting

This might not be an issue for your ds but mine both needed to be reminded to go.

• play time/lunch time

The playground can be overwhelming with all the noise and movement, not to mention the social aspects.

• needing a quiet area to go to when overloaded

When it gets too much it can be useful to have a place to calm down. Some children also like to have their own workstation. They might need someone to take them to the quiet space to start with and to show them how/when to use it.

• group time

Mine often needed help and encouragement to join in with discussions and to show them when it was their turn. I think the TA used to start off 1:1 with them at the beginning of the year and then gradually add more children to the group.

• tasks they don't want to do

Again they would be given a picture card of the activity and encouraged to do it.

The amount of help needed can really vary from one child to another. My eldest had a few hours of 1:1 each week when he was in Reception but that was back when 1:1 was available without a statement. As the year went on he needed less help and hasn't needed a statement (he's now 10). My younger ds had no official 1:1 but it's possible that he may one day need to be statemented.

It also depends on what help can be offered without a statement. Over the years mine have had help with areas like OT, SALT, and social skills. At other schools this might not be possible.

I would be wary about a school planning to use another child's 1:1. If they think your ds will need that level of help then they really should be arranging 1:1 for him rather than using the help allocated to someone else.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head!
It is possible that it wont impair his learning if the teachers handle him right (he is bright), and they do seem confident that they can help him socially (and I believe them).
I think there is a chance that he could get by ok in reception without additional help.
What I am mainly worried about is that he will need help later on and the fact that he will have managed nursery and reception without help will prevent him from getting the help later!

I have hit on the idea of being honest with the teacher and telling her what I've just said and asking her to 'push' or 'test' DS a bit on some things that I think he might struggle with later (working in groups, focusing on a task, switching tasks etc) and if she will agree to do that, we can use the results to see whether we think he'll need additional help later on or not... what do you think?

First I'd check whether the other child has 100% 1:1 allocated and therefore your son would be pinching someone elses TA or whether he genuinely has been allocated less than 100%. Its common for schools to share it around in this way but when a parent has fought for and won 100% 1:1 they will be pretty fed up if its siphoned off for another child.

Secondly you need rules eg when he can use the computer in place from the start and preferably used as a reward for your DS doing other activities he would not usually choose. So you need a system in place not free access to the computer and it will be easier to do this from the start. Also I'd be tempted to ask for computer time to be limited so I knew that the school were not just letting him sit on the computer but having to make sure he engaged with activities.

Thirdly if he has not coped with the group sessions how do they expect to cope in Sept? It will probably be ok for the first few weeks as they usually borrow TAs from elsewhere to settle the new children in, but then what?

Fourthly how much time is the teacher realistically going to have for your child? 1/30th?

I would be applying now for a statement - look at IPSEA for info. But the school should put in 1:1 without a statement / having to apply for funding- ring the parent partnership officer and ask how much local schools are expected to put in without a statement - here its 20 hours a week - most local authorities delegate a big % of the budget to schools already so they don't need to apply for funding - they already have it. be careful this is not just the teacher fobbing you off because they don't want to pay out for two TA's

When he does start I would ask them to fill in a home school book or daily sheet to say what he has done and how it has gone so you know he is being engaged and not just left to his own devices.

x posts, my last message was in reply to sparkletastic!
thanks coppertop as well for your reply
Reading through your list of things, I think DS would struggle with all of those except toileting.
I might make a note of all those things and when I chat to the teacher again I can ask if help in those areas can be covered without a statement in place.. we have actually already discussed DS having a 'quiet' area that he can go to when he feels stressed to calm down. He needs this at home and the teacher was the one to suggest that they do it at school.
There is a SALT at the school and they have said DS will be one of the first children to been seen by her and assessed, so its all sounding promising.
Am calming myself down a bit now and think it may actually be ok! thanks both

x posts again.
Thanks also Agnes. Some good points re the computer and rules. Will def be mentioning that.
There are 30 children in the class, plus a TA plus a nursery nurse (and I presume the other childs 1-1 on top of this), so ratios not too bad.
DS did not cope in first group session (but it was with all 30 children AND all the parents!) but has since been to a session with 10 children there and he was fine for that one (was on computer!)
Home/school book is good idea, the Ed Psych also recommended that to us so I must mention that to the teacher too!

Will think about statements and will look at IPSEA for info, thanks

My eldest used to be obsessed by the computer in Reception. One thing that helped was to give him a timer so that he could see when his turn was coming to an end.

The only problem was that the other children couldn't resist playing with the sand-timer and turning it over just before it ran out. It was great for ds1 as in his mind it was still his turn as the timer was still going. Not so great for the teacher when she realised that ds1 was still there 20mins later through no fault of his own.

I don't think it's true that it's harder to get a statement when they're older than when they're younger. We're in the process of applying for a statement for my 9 year old with Aspergers, and now is the right time, because now he needs more help than he did when he was in the infants.

I agree with Indigobell. Ds is 10 and we're just going through assessment now. He had a terrible time at infants and sa was refused. Things improved at Juniors but have now become more difficult again so need to put things in place before secondary school.

I'd go for the help now - not cos the teacher says so though (she/he may well have a vested interest in getting more help in the classroom that does not come directly out of the school budget)

It takes ages though but worth getting started asap.

My ds has 1 - 1 and I am under no illusion that his TA gets commandeered by other kids. I don't actually have a problem at all with that - I'd want him to be as independent as possible.

Fel1x,

You have already been given some excellent advice and I hope you take heed. My son is older than yours and I have at first hand seen what happens when additional needs are not met by school. Its nothing short of disasterous for these children when their needs are not met.

I would seriously consider applying for the Statement now as it is a legally binding document that school have to adhere to. You apply for the Statement on the basis your son has AS. No other plan offered to you will be legally binding and thus the goalposts get too easily moved. The IEP (a name for that on this board is Individual Empty Promise) if badly worded means nothing; its not legally binding either. You're suppposed to discuss the IEP content within school, however some schools short cut this by sending it home in the book bag.

Its not on either for the school to actually tell you that your DS can have this other child's 1 to 1 for part of the time!. So they are admitting that your DS will need more help than they can themselves give.

I would not be concerned about you supposedly "upsetting" the teacher here because you are your child's best and only bloody advocate!. The school are supposed to be helping here but for all sorts of reasons hold back from doing so with predicatable result I might add. Some schools are hopeless with SEN in any form. If it all goes wrong at school with DS your family life will suffer too as a result.

You write that DS did not cope in his first session (that's a big red flag) but did in the second mainly because he was on the computer. Home/school book is only good if it is used properly by school.

Statements are also for social/communication difficulties as well as academic ones. His new school may be helpful now and he may well go onto have a good reception year but it cannot be guaranteed that Y1 or Y2 will be any easier for him particularly if there is no formal support in place.

Year 1 and 2 are far more formal in terms of learning. The social side of such places too (playtimes and lunchtimes in particular) and the unwritten social conventions surrounding schools as well could well prove very difficult for him to deal with in Infants particularly on entering Juniors. You need to think ahead as much as anything else, besides which YOU are his best - and only - advocate. No-one else is better placed than you to fight his corner for him.

To my mind he needs a Statement and you should apply for one asap. It will take six months to get it set up anyway but at least if there is a document in place his needs will be officially recognised within school.
Do not see a Statement as a stigma; it truly is not.

Re this comment too:-

"There is a SALT at the school and they have said DS will be one of the first children to been seen by her and assessed, so its all sounding promising".

Fel1x,

Am sorry to sound so cynical here but I've heard all this before. It sounds great but it may deliver very little.

If SALT is needed you are better off having this in both Parts 2 and 3 of a Statement document and then you have a better chance of getting SALT provision that is actually worth something.

Felix,

You have been given a lot of good advice here.

My son has full time 1to1 in mainstream and while they got away with using his TA to help other children for awhile, now he is presenting behavioural problems she has to be with him full time.

Try to get a statement.

Also, another child in my son's class has AS. His parents do not want him labelled but school knows so lets him get away with quite a bit. The other children don't undestand and think it is all unfair etc. Not his fault but they don't like him. Considering the disagreements I have with the school about time allocated to teach my child, who has a statement, social skills, I wonder how much they teach this other child.

Ok that sounds like a good staff ratio but be careful its maintained.
Try to agree to very regular meetings and you might need to ask to observe from time to time because you need to know if he is functioning well or not - they do not know him so won't know whats normal for him.
What would be reasonable is a 6 week period of assessment and then have a meeting to discuss targets and how these will be met.
Even if you don't go for a statement try and see what a statement looks like (I think Treehouse have some examples on their website) and effectively draw up a similar list of needs / objectives and the provision needed to meet those needs rather than an IEP which just has 3 or 4 things on it
I know we all sound cynical - but for many of us we have seen no evidence that mainstream teachers know the slightest thing about teaching social skills. Perhaps yours has some particular background but he won't have the same teacher next year.
If you do delay try and apply for a statutory assessment by Xmas otherwise it would be very unlikely you would have it in place for year 1.
All schools have the SLT in and mostly they work with children with pronounciation problems. However they usually also run a weekly social skills / conversation group for the spectrum / shy children.
Again it vastly depends on the SLT if its any good.
I would also ask to go and watch a SLT session.
Some schools welcome parents in and others hate it
It might be worth saying you are thinking about asking for an assessment but on their advice (shows you are working with them / trusting them) will wait a few months and see how things go but say you would like to come in and check he is functioning at a similar level to at home and watch some of the interventions so you feel reassured and then say after 6 weeks have a meeting where you all share your views and come up with an action plan.
That way they know you have a right to ask for assessment yourself but are trusting them / wanting to work with them but in return they have to give you access to him in school so you can feed into the process too.
I'd also draw up a home / school sheet to be completed daily - something like the daily anecdotal notes
here rather than a book they only have to write in when there is a problem.

Everything that Attilla said.

Good luck Fel!x. The only extra advice I would offer you (based on just having seen my AS son through reception year) is that you need to take everything anyone says to you - no matter how nice and how helpful and how encouraging - with an enormous pinch of salt. Make your own decisions about what support you think your son needs, and make your own plans for getting that support in place. Do not rely on the school or the LEA or any other professionals. This is their job. But your DS is your child.

Thank you everyone.
Just come back and seen all your lovely responses. There is lots to read and think about, so I will take all your advice and hopefully things will turn out ok

The thing is with 1:1 is that they will have to fund your ds's own 1:1 out of specific funding for 2 terms before they can apply for any additional funding (if your LEA is anything like mine) I would say this to the teachers as the sooner it is done the better.

My ds is very aggressive, which is why they have to be on the ball with him...plus good nursery support

It was a few years ago my son was Statemented, however i applied for it myself as the Ed Physc said it would be quicker, filled out forms, went to a board and was given 22 hours a week 1:1 for my son. It was pretty straight forward once i got through to the right department at the council. I was given the name of one lady who went to the board on my behalf with all the paperwork, diagnosis and they really took my views and concerns into account. Dont know if yet again its a post code lottery as to how efficient the process is. The problems will arise in Year 1 and 2. If there is no help to encourage your child in reception then later years could be an issue.