mainstream school with SN teacher OR specialised school ?

[TheNewsMongersGeansaiNollag]

Dc2 has a severe speech delay (16 months delay approx), GDDs of 10 -12th months across the board for everything besides speech and may be low on the ASD. Well the child psychologist thinks so and he has a 'statement' which says so.

Anyway, dc1's headmaster told me to send in the statement to the school and they would see if they could get a resource teacher or a special needs teacher for him for the year 2010.

I was telling this to my friend whose dd will be in the same year and I could tell she wasn't thrilled my son might be in her dd's year. She merely asked a few subtle questions about whether or not he would be taken out of the class for extra lesson etc,, but obviously, was thinking to herself 'how does this affect my dd'.

I haven't made up my mind yet anyway. I may send him to a more specialised school, which I think very highly of. I do want him to go to a mainstream school, but only if he can cope.

I don't really know what my decision is yet, but hadn't considered that other parents would be wishing I didn't send him to the same school as his elder sibling.

He has NO speech at all right now, would it be MAD to send him to a mainstream school when I have a place at a much more specialised school.

PS, although I don't think my son does have autism, he definitely has some of the behaviours. eg, had to track down and order a coat exactly the same as his old coat, he needs to arrive to an empty room not a room full of people.. he loves keys and remote controls, little things like that. I think the experts really seem to read to much into it though.

i would maybe see what progress he makes from now until the time to consider school if no speech i would probably opt for specialisefd school as would cater more for his needs but if development comes along then opt for main stream it depends where you feel he would benefit and where most help would come from in terms of his needs

if my ds was still so far behind there would be no doubt id want specialised school as they wouldnt need as much chasing up to ensure his needs are met etc

and not all people atre so judgemental about children with sn my ds nursery playmates parents are all chuffed he may be at school with them knowing he has ASD not all people are so pathetic your friends attitude to that stinks as a friend i would of thought she would be more supportive, its not catching lol

lovely of your "friend" .

on the one hand - it's a very good sign that your dc1's head sounds to so positive about having dc2 in the school and wants to prepare in advance - on the other hand the right specialised school can be a godsend, where all the teachers and assistant's etc are trained to deal with language problems and classes are smaller. I think you need to have a look at and speak to the staff at both types of school, and see what sort of support they offer to children with similar problems.

Your friend will find that there are children with SEN at her dc school. Current policy is to include children where possible, so it is inevitable. Sorry that she was off with you. I would think about how much of the curriculum he will be able to access, if he will understand what is going on and be able to interact then mainstream could work. If you think he may be sitting and not understanding anything and getting frustrated then a special might be better. It is difficult I know but definitly don't worry about what the other parents think

Hmm, tricky one. I ended up sending dd2 to a special school, even though (to my shame) I cried to think of her as disabled when I saw all the other children. I have to say though, it was definitely the right decision - the resources there are amazing compared to any mainstream school, and she seems really happy there.

I'd be surprised if he had an SN teacher in mainstream. Normally it will be a Learning Support Assistant whose experience will range from nought up to highly trained in the relevant skills (you won't know which end though). She/he will work under the direction of the Special Needs Co-ordinator and will be paid peanuts.

You will also need to consider that special schools are actually pretty hard to get into.
The LEA will push you towards mainstream because ( apart from any 'moral' views they may have) it is much much cheaper.
When DS2 got his placement 11 of his peers had no where that could accomodatethem.

If you are cosnsidering a school specific to your childs issue you should start investigating that aggressively now.
Ultimately you can say what school you like and provide support that your child needs that particular provision to meet his needs but the LEA may well offer something cheaper more suitable

Thanks for the advice.

I've been playing over something the head of my dc1's school said. He made a comment about 'having to fight' for the resources the specialised school gets as a matter of course. Well. Durr.

Is it possible his motivation for wanting my dc2 is just to secure an extra sn teacher?

He seems to be champing at the bit for my dc2 to attend his school, without ever having read any of my son's reports (although he'll get them in a day or two).

Ah well, I do have a bit of time before I have to decide, and It is great the head of mainstream school is so supportive, but I will do what I decide.. when time is nearer.

My friend must look at my son and think HOW can the same teacher teach them the same thing?? I do see where she's coming from. Althoug I know that my son won't hold her dd back. Things are better run than that. I mean, disruption might be an issue, but at 5 he's not going to be hugely disruptive, I hope

My elder dc1 has a Finish, Brazilian and a Polish in her class and they all go for extra English, and it doesn't affect my dd in the slightest I know that. It's good for her to see a glimpse of other cultures. She said something to me in Portuguese the other day!!

ps, I must sound so cynical and so ungrateful about the head at the mainstream school. I am really relieved that he's welcoming to my dc2.

Just to explain, when I said Durr, it's not that I think a mainstream school shouldn't have really good resources, only that I think it sort of stands to reason that a specialised school would have more.

also, I know children with English as a second language aren't the same as my son!, but it's the only comparision I have in terms of how every body not being the same affects how class is run.

My daughter has GDD and went to a mainstream school initially and yes other parents did complain. It was a high achieving school and they were worried she would impact on their children's learning and take up too much of the teacher's time.

She then moved to a resource school and spends 50% of time in mainstream and 50% in a small group. We have found her inclusion in mainstream to be just locational as her work is so differentiated from her peers. If I could go back I would pick a special school for her and we will send her to a special secondary school.

Did parents complain to YOU vjg13? or to the head? Did they school pass on the complaints, just to keep you informed?!
Did the school defend your right to send your dd there? Did she have a special needs learning assistant as well as the teacher? Or was she just left to sink or swim?

Sorry to bombard you with questions!

I'm glad your dd is in the right school for her now.

TNMGN, my ds2 started mainstream school in September with a full statement.

He has no intelligable speech and is moderately deaf.

Because he has his statement the school had to supply him with his own teaching assistant, (who is great btw and qualified) and we are very pleased with his progress.

As for how the class runs with DS2 in it is that it is exactly the same for the other children. His TA is purely for him so he isn't taking away any time for other children.

Saying all that if there was a 'speech and language unit' nearby that took the children at KS1 then we would have applied there. Unfortunately they only take them here at KS2.

I had a very good friend give me similar comments this time last year, but I'm afraid I equally harp on about inclusion and how I feel DS2 teaches other children about seeing beyond the disability etc. She hasn't said anything for ages.

I think we have been reasonably lucky with his TA as she is fab, he has twice daily speech therapy with her, and his speech therapist going into school fortnightly.

Good luck, I hope you come to a decision you are happy with. I would sideline your friends comments in your mind, her feelings about having a child with sn in her childs class should remain irrelevent in your decision making.

Thanks for that slightlycrumpled. I wouldn't let my friend's comment influence where I send my son! The head WANTS to get a TA I can tell. He wants the school to be rounded and for everybody iykwim. Not sure all the parents would agree with him, but hey ho.

It sounds like it is working out well for you. Does your son do the same work that is set for the rest of the class, but he gets one on one help with it? SO he really is keeping up with the class, but just with a lot more help from the TA?

THe answer might not necessarily lie with a special school.

It might be worth looking into a mainstream school which has an enhanced provision for the sorts of problems your son has. That way he will get the specialised teaching he needs but have the availability of integrating into a mainstream class for some lessons.

I want to find out what it involves; going to a mainstream school with a TA. Do they do the same work but have the advantage of one on one teaching? Or, do they do separate easier work, and socially, is a five year old embarrassed about having their own teacher??

We just heard about the complaints on the playground grapevine and via the head of the nursery she had attended.

She had no support for the last 2 hours of the day but the school is very well funded and could have used a classroom assistant to help her. The head teacher was supportive but we realized the situation wasn't working and wanted to move her as did the LEA. The class teacher was crap and had no SN experience.

IME inclusion works well at nursery level, ok for reception and decreasingly as the child gets older and the gap widens with their peers. We find the current school arrangement of 50% mainstream totally inappropriate for her but she is now in year 6.

Mainstream can make children over reliant on a TA and it can be very hard for a child to be working at a totally different level in a lively class of 30. It is also very intense to have an adult at your side constantly.

I'm sorry to sound so negative but it is just my experience with my daughter and all children behave differently.

Thanks vjg, that's definitely given me something to think about.

There is also the issue of friendships to think about and we've found that as she moved through the school she is more excluded socially. At a special school my daughter would have had peer friendships which she lacks now

I hope I didn't offend you, of course you wouldn't let her affect your decision, what I meant to say (but worded v. badly) was not to be emotionally affected by her comments.

Anyway to answer your question, he is currently keeping up with the rest of the class and is learning to read, write etc and following the national curriculum.

I think it depends on the nature and severity of his speech problems. I know that DS2 is highly unlikely to ever speak properly. Partly due to his hearing problems but mainly due to a late diagnosis of a cleft palate which has only recently been repaired.

His TA is mainly there to support his communication, sign for him etc, and to repeat instructions.

So far it's good but as vjg wisely points out it is different in the early years, thats why I will never write off SN school for him if it looks like he will struggle at mainstream in the future. It is a nightmare though.... could do with a crystal ball!

We would like her to go to a non-maintained special school and have an on-going battle with the LEA. In the last 3 weeks they have said they may agree to this but not provide the transport. We cannot provide it as it is too expensive and we also have work. We are waiting for a final statement which we will appeal against as it will name her current school.

It is a draining process but this time we have really done our homework and visisted many schools to find the right one.

No, they have an LEA special secondary school which they would provide transport for but because the school we want is non-maintained and our chioce they don't have to.

If we were successful at appeal in getting it then they would have to provide the transport.