Should we move our SEN child from a small school?

[CP675]

7 year old in year 2, dyslexic, combined ADHD, awaiting autism assessment. Struggles with reading, writing and emotional regulation. Awaiting sensory assessment but seems to have a high need for sensory input.

Currently goes to a very small school, 6 in his year, only 1 other boy. Mixed classes, only 70 in the school. He is happy going into to school and believes he has a nice school but is getting increasingly upset with the lack of children he has to play with and I think it’s impacting his self esteem. There have also been some instances where the children have been unkind about his reading and writing which the school don’t seem to address. The school have also isolated him by giving treats to the other 5 children in his year for academic ability and told him he can’t have it. Lots of children have left due to the size of the school.

We are thinking of moving him, it would be to a school with a good reputation but it’s a 2 form entry so much larger. We are worried about how he will cope with the size and also the change. He struggles with change. He wants to go and see the other school. I’m struggling with the fact that on paper the small school should be perfect for him but the reality is I’m not sure it is. Any advice at all? Feeling incredibly worried about what to do.

I don’t necessarily think it is a small vs larger school decision. Rather about the individual schools. You mention a lot about the current school, but not so much about the potential new school. Have you spoken to the new school? What support will they provide? Have supportive are they? What is the environment like in relation to DS’s sensory needs? Moving won’t necessarily solve the friendship issues.

If the current school isn't dealing with the bullying, complain. I would also raise the rewarding everyone else for academic ability and not DS.

Have you considered requesting an EHCNA? If you make a request for an EHCNA, I wouldn’t move just yet. It is unlawful, but LAs sometimes refuse because DC have recently moved schools and they say DC need time to settle.

Thanks for your response. I mention the current school lots as that’s what we know. We’ve seen the new school twice, met with the SENCO and are taking the child round for a viewing but until you are actually in the school you just don’t know. They seem supportive but I thought that about where he is now. They generally have a good reputation and seem supportive and knowledgeable about SEN. I don’t feel like we fully understand his sensory needs yet so don’t know what to look for. It will naturally be busier and louder. I’ve raised all of the issues re the other children and the rewards with the current school and get little back.

With regards to friendships, I expect there still would be challenges but he’d have a pool of 59 potential friends rather than 5.

We are in the process of applying for an EHCPNA and have just had the letter to say yes to assess.

If you are in the middle of the needs assessment, I wouldn’t move school right now.

If the school is ignoring you, have you followed the formal complaints process?

More pupils in the year group doesn’t necessarily mean easier to make friends. Sometimes more can make it more difficult. Presumably DS isn’t limited to only those in his year group now so it isn’t just 5 others he could make friends with?

Have you spoken to parents who have DC with SEN at the potential new school?

At 7 my child had a similar presentation. It was only when we moved house and school - from a smaller to larger school - that the sensory overwhelm of such a busy place became very difficult for them. I hear you about friendship groups. Are there any clubs that they could join? A SEN sports club locally for example, or art club? Mine went to beavers but said it was a bit too loud - but they did make friends.

Thank you for everyone’s replies.

Please can I ask what impact does being in the middle of a needs assessment have? And do you mind me asking your experience that means you wouldn’t move in the middle of one? Both schools and the service we are paying to support us with the EHCPNA application haven’t mentioned this being an issue so I’m wondering what problems it could cause.

We have had private SALT assessment and are awaiting private OT/sensory assessment in September.

I really do understand that on paper a smaller school seems like a complete no brainer. That’s why we chose it. But he hasn’t found his tribe there. At his age the play is quite gender split. He does play with kids from other years but the years he is sandwiched with also have very few boys so it’s still very limited. They don’t tend to play with the much older or much younger kids. In what scenarios can more pupils in a year make it more difficult to make friends? Was this your experience?

Also because he’s ended up in a year that is very academically able he constantly feels like the odd one out. The class he would be in at the new school has quite a few children who need extra support with reading and writing. One of the first things he asked when he went to look around was if there were other dyslexic children there.

Thank you for everyone’s replies. I’m having sleepless nights worrying about the right decision to make

Sorry, didn’t mean to quote one reply

I would stay put until either you have a finalised EHCP or a refusal to issue (and so you can appeal). That is because:

1. As I said in my pp, it is unlawful, but LAs sometimes refuse because DC have recently moved schools and they say DC need time to settle.
2. If you move school now, if the LA issue an EHCP, there is no guarantee they will name the new school even if it is your preference. It could result in two moves in quick succession. That can have a really negative effect on DC, especially when they are already struggling.
3. On a related point to above, the NA process may make you realise the new potential school isn’t actually the right school. Again, resulting in two moves in quick succession.
4. The NA is more likely to capture difficulties correctly in an established placement than a new placement, e.g. where there may be a honeymoon period, where there will be staff who don’t know DS, new children…

You should be careful of relying on schools to tell you information you need about the EHCP process. They don’t always understand SEN law. Yes, even the SENCO. They will sometimes repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. Sometimes they will tell you what they want you to know and not the full picture.

If you are paying for support, you should choose carefully. If it is an advocate you are paying, while some are good, it is an unregulated business and there are some who can do more harm than good. Personally, unless money is no object, I would save your money. You don’t need to be paying for support at this stage.

Is the existing SALT assessment sufficient for the EHCP? Many that aren’t written for EHCPs don’t cover needs, provision, outcomes and aren’t detailed, specified and quantified. Is it still up to date?

More pupils in a school can make it more difficult friendship wise for some because it is easier to fly under the radar. Some also find they are more likely to be on the periphery in larger groups. Some with C&I difficulties find interaction in larger groups more difficult for reasons such as expressive and receptive language difficulties. Two of my autistic DC finds 1:1 interaction easier than group interaction, but it isn’t a problem limited to them. I know lots of others who it applies to.

Hi, I hope this isn’t rude, I appreciate you taking the time to post but you are assuming there is a lot we haven’t done and that there is a lot we don’t know eg viewing the new school and speaking to the SENCO. You give very definitive views whilst not speaking a great deal of your experience so it’s difficult to know if this is just your view or if you are speaking from something that has happened to you.

I am absolutely confident in the support we are getting for the EHCPNA. We have done all of our due diligence here and it is an invaluable service in our situation. Perhaps it wouldn’t be for you but it is for us. In terms of the SALT report we commissioned, we are also confident this is fit for purpose, including the ensuring we have a version of the report to be used in a tribunal situation should it come to that.

These matters are not the purpose of my post. I am posting specifically to understand if other neurodiverse parents have experienced a situation where their child struggled in a small school but went on to do well in a larger school or if small ratios in a small school trump everything.

I hope you understand the intent behind my message. Thank you

I haven’t assumed you have or haven’t done anything. They were questions to see what point you were up to. For example, you may have spoken to the potential new school’s SENCO, but equally you may not have because not everyone does before moving schools. Anther example, while the SALT report you have may be sufficient, not all existing ones are. Hence my question.

Everything I have posted is based on years and years of experience within the SENCO system, both personally and supporting thousands of others.

Your thread title asked a question. I have answered that. Then answered questions you have asked in subsequent posts. At no point in your OP did you say you only wanted personal experiences of those moving from a small school to a larger school.

The specialist OT report is likely to recommend substantial support e.g an environment adapted to their attention, emotional and communication needs, simplified and less visually busy learning materials, and daily 1:1 sensory regulation etc. This means that the schools you're viewing now may not yet have the full picture of their needs or be able to meet them.

In our experience, the Local Authority actually had a clearer understanding of which local independent settings were genuinely inclusive and able to support children with similar profiles.

My experience is only watching friends children move in and out of my DC school, not personal experience. Based on what I've seen, I think the school environment and culture is at least as important as the size.

I have seen children who have struggled to manage in the environment in larger schools move in to my DC school and flourish. It is a fairly small school (105), with fairly strict behaviour expectations, reasonably formal lessons and a focus on academic success. The teachers know all the kids and the kids know all the kids in the school. For some children who have been failing in bigger, more chaotic schools the environment in my DC school has been exactly what they needed.

I have also seen DC with additional needs really struggle in my DC school and move to different schools that have been better for them. One of the schools were single form entry, with a different culture of more free flowing play, more tolerance for minor misbehaviours and more of a focus on working in partnership with parents. Others children moved to 3 form entry where there was more specialist SEN staff, because bigger schools can afford it.

What sort of culture do you think will work best for your son? Will he manage when there are lots of children and staff he doesn't know? The potential to play across years is one of the potential benefits of a smaller school, and from what my DC tell me is definitely something children who struggle socially sometimes do in their school - but if your DS doesn't do it, it's not something that will matter for him. If he is struggling academically, having some peers in the same position is probably going to get more important as he gets older- my DC3 is in the same year with SEN and he is really starting to notice now he's the one furthest behind.