Violent 7 year old

[Sunflower1650]

I didn’t know if this post was best on Parenting or the Special Needs board.

7 year old DS has autism and dyspraxia. I also believe he has ADHD (so do school) however the paediatrician refused to diagnose because he was able to sit still in his chair and wasn’t fidgety during the appointments (these were her words).

His behaviour at school is generally good once we manage to get him there. We’ve had lots of school refusal lately. At home however he has become violent over the last few weeks. He used to hurt himself when he was dysregulated by hitting or scratching, but now he’s started hurting us instead. Tonight was the worst attack on me and DH (his dad) yet, both of us are bleeding from scratches. He hits us, headbutts us, kicks us, throw things, screams at the top of his lungs and tells us to shut up. He will tell us that we can’t control him and cannot tell him what to do. This behaviour earlier was simply because we asked him to come off his Nintendo Switch while we went out for a bit. He is Minecraft obsessed. He didn’t want to. We give him gradual warnings eg 5 mins left, 2 mins left. We’ve also tried visuals like sand timers. He simply doesn’t want to do anything he doesn’t want to do and sees red. This is just one example, these type of outbursts aren’t always about screen time, it could literally be about any type of request we make.

We then removed the Switch from him for the rest of the night and this worsened the behaviour, that’s when he started headbutting me in the chest. He was removed to his room by his dad, but DS is on the 91st centile and it’s not something I would be able to do if I was alone. He is often more violent to me than his dad. We’ve also tried going screen free and this sends him into absolute meltdown because he uses it to regulate himself after being at school.

He has a younger brother (3) and he will often hurt him too, which his does sneakily when we’re out of the room or our backs are turned.

He usually shows remorse later on after behaving like this. He will cuddle me, cry, and tells me he’s sorry. It breaks my heart. We talk to him about this behaviour but he says he just can’t control it and feels too angry not to hurt us.

I think part of it is that he is just in overload after being at school. School put him in nuture groups, Lego therapy, soft start, and applied for an EHCP but the local authority refused to issue one.

We try to make sure we praise his good behaviour, let him know he is loved, have lots of 1:1 time with him. But the violence towards us is getting worse. I don’t know what to do. His paediatrician who diagnosed him discharged us a while ago. Does anyone have any advice?

We introduced screens to 9yr old Nd child and Minecraft was a firm favourite. However it had to be managed really well with limited times. Removing it was tricky as it resulted in monumental meltdowns.

Screen time for ND children is different to those that are NT, it’s helps them regulate and calm and for us it’s part of the end of day routine to calm before bedtime. I think Minecraft on creative mode is fine and the music is calming too and for us it’s been really beneficial. We got a trampoline and send our ds to bounce when he looks like he needs it and a friend has a spinning seat which helps her child. You are doing great and seeking help, I think the problem is he is struggling in school and so by the time he gets home he is overwhelmed and dysregulated. Play therapy for many I know has been a real game changer so I would definitely explore this. Hang in there you got this.

ND kids including adhd and autistic adhd often have low natural dopamine levels or too many transporters removing it. So they easily get bored, weary or irritable. Because boredom can feel physically uncomfortable, their brains crave the easy hits of dopamine provided by screens BUT making it difficult for ND kids to transition to less stimulating tasks like chores or homework. That can feel like a "crash" for their nervous system. Then they kick off.

So screens “help” with regulation by feeding dopamine hits but create new and worse problems as you cannot be on a screen all the time and taking it away feels HORRIBLE.

The only way round that is to find non screen ways of boosting dopamine. Music. Sport for example. Dance. Or medication.

If your child’s body has the right amount of dopamine, they’re more likely to feel happy, alert, focused, and motivated. If they have too little they might feel “lazy”, have mood swings, sleep or concentration problems. Too much dopamine can make your dc hyper and impulsive.

I know you find comments about screen time judgemental, but there’s very clearly a link between screen use and behaviour. Using it as a crutch may not be helping you as much as you think. Yes there are positives, but he’s now becoming violent in relation to the screen- it’s not a huge leap, given wider knowledge about the impact of screen use on children. Some social services teams have SEN behavioural teams that help with this kind of situation- worth contacting them.

I’m not sure what services you have available but if you can find a good occupational therapist, I’d recommend looking at what they call his sensory diet.

There are eight senses, and in each there will be sensations he finds regulating and some he finds dysregulating. The more you can eliminate or mitigate the latter and increase the former the better. If you can’t find, afford an OT or the waiting list is too long there are loads of resources online that can help with this.

The more regulated he is, the more resilient and emotionally stable he will be. Chances are there are a lot of ordinary things slowly driving him crazy (it can be stuff like seams on socks, T-shirt labels, lights)

In terms of transitions, look for information on ODD and PDA, as there are ways of signalling a transition is coming without triggering a reaction.

In terms of screens, what sort of rules do you have in place? We had a non negotiable start time but we found it helpful to be flexible about endings. Sometimes they’re in the middle of something that needs finishing and I was ok with that.

If I had to enforce a consequence I added 5 minutes to the start of the next screen time, and 5 more minutes for push back/continuing bad behaviour. It was very effective. I also was open to exchanging chores (1 chore= 5 mins) so he could work back his time. It was a mild and calm punishment which helped restore authority and perspective because his behaviour didn’t control mine. I was the adult, I was in control, I could handle him until he learned to handle himself.

My AuDHD 6yo is similar on occasion, DH has some scratches that are healing at the moment from trying to take him to his room when he wouldn't leave our eldest alone. He also likes to hurt me when he's bored.

I do take device time away for certain behaviour and would probably consider trialling a ban if I felt it would help but you've had a lot of people say that sort of thing and in our case meltdowns aren't iPad related. We're very structured with screen time though and the iPad is mine, not his so he knows it's up to me if he has it and he needs to be making the right choices. We're structured in terms of he knows it's an hour at lunchtime and at dinner time, but also flexible and allow him to finish whatever programme he's watching.

I have heard good things about NVR training but haven't done it yet myself. But my LA offers free courses.

Mainly we try to keep him really busy and occupied due to the ADHD and use rewards a lot. If a meltdown has happened I think about if I could have done things differently, but I do also stick to important boundaries even if I know there will be a meltdown. So it's getting that balance of keeping everyone safe but not just letting him think he can do whatever he wants.

Neither of my children have Sen as far as I know but I do wonder how much of the rise in diagnosis of autism and adhd are linked to screens. I really do think they are very damaging and while I accept it won’t be pleasant for anybody I do think that’s where to start.

A 7 year old boy shouldn’t be playing computer games. I would remove all computers like the switch completely

I more meant all games at that age, probably could have been clearer in the post. Watching a tv show on a screen could be a way to relax. Minecraft can be addictive imo for young dc.

Dd doesn’t do games but she got a camera which had old fashioned ones like snake or ping pong, very basic visuals. She had a few goes, thought them pretty good but that was it. Minecraft is more encompassing than that and can stick in terms of immersion and then turning it off.

The older games can be worse but I assume the op isn’t allowing those.

@TinyMouseTheatre he is actually on slow release tablets but he’s only ever managed to swallow the tablet once. So we end up having to crush it and put in in a yogurt or drink of milk and then it works in one big hit like normal melatonin. We did ask the GP for other options but they weren’t very helpful and we’ve now been discharged from the paediatrician who prescribed them. I’m hoping as he gets older he’ll be able to swallow it!

@ClassyCuckoo this is so interesting and helpful around dopamine, thank you.

@Oleoreoleo we actually have an appointment with his OT (NHS) next week so I’ll bring this up, thank you! She’s been brilliant in the past so I’m hoping she may be able to help us. That’s interesting what you say about having a non negotiable start time with screens, we’ve been doing the opposite and had a non negotiable end time eg. 20 mins while I cook tea, once timer goes off he has to come off. Maybe I’m doing this wrong.

@raisinglittlepeople12 thank you, I am not disputing that there is a correlation between screen time and difficult behaviour and I’ve taken the comments on board. Because I had used screen time and his violent behaviour as an example of what happened yesterday I felt that everyone jumped on the “screentime is causing that behaviour”. I wish I had used a different example. When this violent behaviour has actually been escalating for weeks and has stemmed from various situations. Leaving his cousins house, putting the bouncy castle down, having to go home from the park, the list is endless. We have two bouncy castles for the garden because both kids love bouncing, and when it was time to put them away the other day he started screaming, repeatedly hit me, headbutted me and started throwing objects at the fence. It always stems from some sort of transition. And his behaviour is also ten times worse after being at school, it’s better on a weekend. When he’s been at school he can have a meltdown the instant he walks through the back door.
I’m constantly treading on eggshells.

Posting in SEN would at least avoid all of the completely uninvited suggestion that screens make children violent. Which is obviously total nonsense given many many children play Minecraft and much more problematic games and are not violent.

If you want to you can report your OP and ask MN to move the thread.

This sounds like dysregulation/stress behaviour to me. The most helpful book that I've read for managing and understanding this is Robyn Gobbel's Big Baffling Behaviours. She uses a metaphor of different animals to explain the different states and the behaviour you describe is her protective/Watchdog type brain.

When they're in the dysregulated state it doesn't help to address the behaviour because their behaviour is essentially instinctive. He knows it is wrong because he expresses remorse afterwards. That suggests to me that consequences are unlikely to be of much help. Consequences only really help if you're trying to shift the motivation profile of a behaviour e.g. something which is fun for them but inconveniences others, or when they are too young to follow a longer term aim you can bring the motivation closer to them.

If he already doesn't want to behave like this but doesn't seem to be able to control it in the moment, then what he needs is more control and/or less stress, not more motivation. More consequences will just increase his distress after an incident but not reduce the frequency or severity of the behaviour. If you do want to use consequences, the very small increments like the 5 mins as @Oleoreoleo says work best, because they don't increase the dysregulation as much as a massive sanction and because you can't "run out" so the child doesn't end up in a position where they have nothing to lose/nothing to work for.

If some of his stress is being caused by school and you're not in a position to change that, you might have to put measures in place to essentially counterbalance this at home, which is not easy because it tends to be very disruptive to the family as a whole.

I would definitely look into the ADHD diagnosis again via whichever avenues are available for this - maybe ask school SENCo, GP, and/or local family hub? When DS2 went on medication for his ADHD, it reduced the school stress for him massively and we don't see the explosive dysregulated behaviour at home any more.

Screens are thorny, because in some ways they can be a tool you can use to support regulation. Games like Minecraft give the player control. It's a world he understands which is predictable. It's also fun and low stakes and when you've spent all day every day just surviving a stressful environment, often you just need some time to zone/veg out which is what screen time can give you. If he needs that kind of regulation, sure it can be achieved without a screen, but it can also be achieved with a screen and there is no reason to take it away just because screens are the current bogeyman.

OTOH some kinds of screen time we find can be dysregulating. Some games are overstimulating and seem to feel addictive and make you want to keep playing forever and ever. Some bombard you with overstimulating ads. Anything algorithmically driven like Youtube can be difficult to control what content is being shown and some of it is designed around engagement and can be overstimulating. In addition, if your child is already on the verge of dysregulation a lot of the time and/or struggles with interoception (reading their internal body cues) then I have noticed the screen can be so attention grabbing that it can cause them to miss hunger, toilet, temperature cues and so they start to feel bad because of those needs but don't really know why.

Everything on this website is helpful too: https://www.declarativelanguage.com/declarative-language-faqs

If you have access to an iPad or Apple Arcade, there’s some similar games on there. Apple Arcade are add free with no purchases. City Scapes, zoo keeper world, jelly car world and some good simulator games as well like a power wash one. My son only had Minecraft for a very short time as his behaviour did change and we’ve found my son transitions better from the Apple Games. Transitions can always be hard though, my son really dislikes being told what to do or stop an activity he’s enjoying, so we’ve had to find ‘motivators’ (basically bribes) that work, sometimes it’s just finding the right thing so we will go through a list of options and suddenly hit the right one! Ps there’s no screen limits in our house, it’s an educational tool that has helped calm anxiety, promote speech, encourage reading and maths. Do what suits you.

I don’t think the connection is that, but I can see Minecraft can impact dc’ behaviour at around that age.

@BertieBotts that declarative language site is brilliant!

It obviously isn’t as simple as ‘screens make children violent.’ But I know from my own ds that over Christmas I let him go in my iPad and when I tried to remove it he was horrible and while he wasn’t violent he was screaming and crying and trying to take it back.

That said I take on board the fact it’s not just screens - must be incredibly hard @Sunflower1650 and the last thing I would wish to do is add to your stress.

You say you use the screen to regulate his emotions then you are surprised that when you take the screen away he cannot regulate his emotions?

He needs alternative ways to regulate his emotions. Or he needs free, unlimited access to screens.

Screens are terrible for ND children. Its so much harder for them to learn to regulate then you chuck in a screen because it seems easy for them and you, but in the long run its making things much, much harder.

Yes it might feel calm when they’re immersed, especially so young, but the bigger issues arise
when the game is not there.

And its so much harder for them to regulate anyway. They need their own strategies and ways of dealing with transitions and challenges and using a screen to calm and regulate takes all the time away from learning those strategies.
Short term gain long term pain.

I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this – it sounds incredibly intense, and you’re clearly doing a lot to support him already.

Also, just to say, asking for help about something like this is not easy at all. It takes a lot to say it out loud, especially when behaviours escalate like this, so please don’t feel judged for posting. To be honest, it is brave.

What you’re describing does sound like a child who is becoming overwhelmed and then losing control rather than choosing to behave that way. The fact that he shows remorse afterwards is quite telling; it suggests he isn’t comfortable with what’s happening either.

Transitions and demands, even small ones like coming off a device, can be particularly difficult for children with autism and dyspraxia, especially if he is already overloaded from school. The reaction can look disproportionate, but it is often the final tipping point rather than the full cause.

One thing that sometimes helps in these situations is shifting the focus slightly from removing the behaviour to reducing the overload before it builds. That might look like more structured decompression time after school, or very predictable routines around transitions where possible.

It also sounds like you could do with more support around this, especially given the level of physical behaviour you’re dealing with. If you haven’t already, it may be worth going back to your GP and asking for a re-referral or additional input, particularly around regulation and behaviour strategies.

You’re clearly a very thoughtful parent and already doing a lot of the right things. This doesn’t read as a lack of boundaries – it reads as a child who is struggling to regulate and needs the right support around him.

I have a 7 yo daughter with PDA profile. I cannot imagine ever using a timer or similar with her, she would FREAK!

Have you tried talking to him and explaining why games, streaming platforms etc. are designed to “hook you in” and what they can do to how we feel and behave? And how we can build healthy habits?

This is what I do with my daughter and I feel she is now able to identify the feeling of being “addicted” to a tv show and often actively chooses to do something else.

I will say I don’t let her use iPad or Switch on her own as I observed it made her meltdown. We do play Switch but we do it together on the TV and talk about it etc.

The fact he does it when your back is turned proves he CAN control it, and when he cries after, he's manipulating you and it's working. Sorry OP but you need to give him a bit of tough love. Everyone has negative emotions and learns to deal with them and those who don't end up in prison.

Autistic children can learn to adapt to the world but it can never be the inverse.

I don't think you can underestimate the negative impact that screens have on kids, whether ND or NT. It's a lot worse nowadays compared to when we were kids; the videos and TV shows move so much faster now, and it's been well-documented that it's drastically reduced attention span, and means viewers are constantly chasing the next dopamine hit (it's bad enough for us adults with our phones, let alone kids).
We weaned screen time down to now only TV on the weekends, and tablet only for long car rides or plane journeys. The positive impact has been so dramatic in terms of behaviour.

I know it won't be easy to make this change OP, but I can't emphasise enough how in the long run it will be helpful for your child. Good luck.

I agree. If it’s got to the point where he’s physically attacking you leaving you bruised and bleeding but can seemingly switch it on and off means that there is a degree of control and awareness there.

when he’s kicking off like this, what is yours and your husbands response? The fact that he’s worse for you is interesting too. Is your husband tougher on him?

I feel like he attacks me more simply because I am here more, and I am more likely to be the one to be like “time to come inside in 5 minutes”.

This violence towards us has only started over recent weeks. Prior to this he would hurt himself instead of us. He would scratch himself until he bled. Pull out his hair and bang his head against walls. Trust me when I say that this is not a little boy who had control

I get it. I did wrote a post but lost it. The gist was, my son has matured and it’s improved. It’s clear to see when he’s unregulated and when he’s being deliberately naughty.