Please advice Sen secondary nightmare

[asdbaybeeee]

My son who is in y6 is autistic . He’s in mainstream with full time 1:1, he works at greater depth. Last October we had his EHCP review where we asked LA to consult with 3 mainstream secondary schools. Two said no and one didn’t respond so was chosen as default, they were named in February on his echp for September.
We had a meeting with the senco at the new school this week, they have said they can not meet need, he can’t have 1:1 and they want us to ask LA to consult with Sen schools. To be fair to them his behaviour has deteriorated since October and he currently is taught outside of the classroom. Their argument is if he can’t access the classroom he can’t attend their school.
We have looked around the only suitable Sen school in our town and we were not keen due to high levels of violence on the school. (It is also full) All other Sen schools don’t offer GCSES we are keen that he has access to academic options. We found an independent school that may work, they only opened in September though so it would be a risk but they do currently have 8 places but have had a lot of interest.
I’ve spoken to sendiass, apparently our options are-
Try the mainstream and see
Log a tribunal (apparently it would be fast tracked)
appeal the EHCP (we are slightly out the eight weeks)
call a emergency review

Our concern is if we go to appeal/ consultation again we could end up with a school we wanted less than the one we have.

can anyone advise on any of these processes ? what are the chances of us getting the independent school?

Firstly, going to tribunal and appealing the EHCP are the same thing. You have 2 months from the date of the letter or 1 month from the mediation certificate to submit an appeal to SENDIST. If your right of appeal has lapsed, you could ask SENDIST if they will allow leave to appeal out of time, but it isn’t guaranteed.

What is your preference? What do you think? If DS isn’t able to cope in class, secondary MS is unlikely to be suitable.

Are the mainstream schools you originally preferred wholly independent? If not, you don’t need an offer of a place for them to be named. They can be named even if they object. If any of these schools are still your preference, you can appeal for them and there are limited reasons that can be refused.

Is 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in F?

The school is named, so they can’t say DS can’t attend.

As well as schools in your town, have you looked at schools out of area?

Unless the school is wholly independent, on its own, a school being full isn’t enough of a reason to refuse to name your preferred placement.

Is the independent school that may work wholly independent or a section 41 independent? I suspect wholly independent because I don’t think there is a s41 school that only opened in September 25. In which case, is the school willing to offer a place? For wholly independent schools, you will need to show the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. You will need evidence.

There is no guarantee the LA will agree to hold an early review. Even if they do, they may not agree to make the amendments required.

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. IPSEA and SOSSEN are better for accurate information.

Watching with interest I am in exactly the same boat literally mirrors my case right now with my DD.....

Thank you so much this is so helpful.
We ideally want him to go to mainstream as it give him more options academically but he would likely need significant support and the school named isn’t willing to do that.

The current EHCP states in section f - 5.5 hours of support per day, some of that is stated as 1:1. Some are 1:3 or 1:6 . But his current school do give him support all day and the majority of that is 1:1 apart from interventions which is small group.

The independent school we like is wholly independent. Sendias said we can ask LA to consult with an independent but if they say no there’s no appeal option so I’m guessing we can’t go to tribunal for the independent?
Can we go to tribunal for a 1:1 support in mainstream secondary or does it not worklike that?

im going to look at out of area too.

again thank you. I will look at those websites

its awful isn’t it. I feel sick and don’t know what to do for the best.
Are you wanting mainstream or Sen school ideally?

It doesn’t matter what the named school wants to provide. The EHCP is a legal document. The provision detailed, specified and quantified in F isn’t optional. The LA is ultimately responsible for the provision and it can be enforced if necessary. If the school chooses not to provide it, they leave themselves and the LA open to legal action.

Yes, you can appeal section F. It sounds like section F needs improving, so you should look to appeal either by seeing if SENDIST will allow leave to appeal out of time, by requesting an early review and seeing if the LA agrees to hold one, or by waiting until the next AR. You also need to look at the precise wording. I appreciate you have summarised on here, but, for example, ‘support’ is quite vague. It needs to say exactly what is to be provided. Think about who, ratio, what, where, frequency, length of session…

Wholly independent schools can only be named if they agree. If they refuse, SENDIST cannot force them.

Are you sure DS will cope in mainstream secondary if he can’t cope in the classroom in primary?

Hi @asdbaybeeee I know its an absolute nightmare finding the right school....I want my DD to go to a mainstream, a sen school just won't give her the academic opportunities, I am going to appeal my LA saying no to consult, I wasn't told you can't appeal, that sounds wrong to me but I haven't asked anyone like sendiass but I am almost sure that is incorrect. It is a tough fight though, as I am finding out (gathering information/evidence) even if you think its watertight the LA can be a tough nut to crack and mine are not backing down 😞.....Good Luck!

@ChaiLatteandAsprinkleofchocolate you can’t appeal for a wholly independent school if the wholly independent school does not want to be named in the EHCP. In order for such a school to be named, they must agree and offer a place.

You are absolutely right @scoopofmintchocchipicecream sorry i,ve worded it wrong I am actually appealing the school named in section i ...I don't have an offer but the school I contacted told me to ask the LA to consult them, so yes it is not an offer but I have since been advised by someone on here I can appeal and ask for the court to direct them to consult the school not to name it but to consult, I hope thats right? (maybe im still wrong but think thats the jist....😄

@ChaiLatteandAsprinkleofchocolate if the LA won’t consult you can submit an appeal then ask SENDIST to direct the LA to consult, but if the consultation is negative you can’t proceed with them as your preferred placement for the appeal.

If the OP asks the LA to consult and they, the school, says no, OP can’t appeal for that school.

Ah ok thanks @scoopofmintchocchipicecream that makes sense ....thanks for the advice, it really helps ...

Is that specifically because it is an independent school?
is it a different situation for schools under the local authority?

@scoopofmintchocchipicecream
sorru another question?
if we were to go to tribunal/appeal EHCP would we be doing that to name another school or purely to open up consultations again?

When someone appeals, they appeal the EHCP. In your case, I would appeal BFI. Section B is the section covering special educational needs. Section F is the section for special educational provision. Section I is the placement.

Depending on DS and what the EHCP is like, you may also want to appeal C&G (health care needs and health care provision, respectively) &/or D&H (social care needs and social care provision, respectively)

Schools that are not wholly independent can be named even if the school objects. You don’t need an offer of a place. The LA can (and must if it is your preference and one of the limited exceptions doesn’t apply) name the school regardless, and you can appeal for a non-wholly independent school to be named regardless and SENDIST can Order such a school be named regardless.

It is only wholly independent schools who require the school to agree to being named. And if wholly independent schools don’t agree, the LA can’t name them and SENDIST cannot Order they be named without an offer of a place.

Hi sorry to jump on OP's thread again, do you know a good Ed psychologist? @scoopofmintchocchipicecream i have a lot of reports but they are old and I have been advised I will need an EP report, so many can't take my case as they are full......hopefully if you do this will help @asdbaybeeee too.....London or border of Kent ....sorry @asdbaybeeee hijacking your post hope you don't mind.....getting stressed out with it all......the worry is September no placement...thanks

No problem sounds like we are both in the same boat! Hope you get sorted, keep me posted

Thanks @scoopofmintchocchipicecreamso with my circumstances would we be better appealing the EHCP to have it amended to better fit his needs and change the school, but presumably the LA would have to consult with schools would they do that before or after the appeal? Would the consultation still take 12 weeks?
Or would it be better to call emergency EHCP review and ask them to consult/update first?

OP, in your situation, I would see if SENDIST will allow leave to appeal out of time. I would do that ASAP. Permission isn’t guaranteed, so in case they don’t accept an appeal now, alongside this, I would request an early review.

I wouldn’t just rely on requesting an early review because seeing if SENDIST will allow an appeal now is the better option time wise. Firstly, there is no guarantee the LA will agree to hold an early review. If they don’t, you don’t have the right of appeal. You would have to either wait for the AR or request a reassessment of needs (which does come with the right of appeal if refused). Secondly, even if the LA agree to an early review, there is no guarantee they will amend, so you might still end up needing to appeal but having wasted time. If they do amend, there is no guarantee it will be amended to a satisfactory standard so you may still end up needing to appeal, and a finalised EHCP could be up to 14 weeks away (even if the LA agrees to an early review straight away it would be 2 weeks to circulate information prior to the meeting and up to 12 weeks after the meeting to finalise).

The LA will approach schools during the appeal process. Consultations with schools don’t take 12 weeks.

@ChaiLatteandAsprinkleofchocolate ahem, we have spoken under a different name. It will be helpful to you if all the EP suggestions are on one thread for you to refer back to, so I will hop over to the other thread and give you some more suggestions if you haven’t had any luck with the names so far.

Thank for all you help you have been amazing

@asdbaybeeee I will thanks, and Good Luck with getting your choice school for your son, keep fighting 💪💜