Send child being removed from class

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Hi, (i have searched on mumsnet but can't find a thread similar)

DC Asd/PDA/ADHD in primary school, awaiting Tribunal for change to special school, a long wait to go.
DC struggling at school and falling way behind, because of finding it hard to grasp the basics of reading, writing. In year 1, others are way ahead in class, so he is getting frustrated and angry at being behind/not being able to keep up/not understanding what's going on/getting things wrong. Being sensiory overwhelmed. He then shouts and lashes out.

Obviously a difficult situation for all.
He has a OT report, Ed Psych report, sensory Diet in his ehcp (although we are working at strengthening this within the next 2 months, for now and the tribunal). More assessments etc.
He does have reasons for struggling ie fine and gross motor skills, slow working function etc. New updated Ed Psych report to be completed soon.

He may spend a morning in class dysregulated, getting worked up. So the afternoon is spent out of class, seemingly in the headteachers room with pen and paper, the office, another classroom with older children etc, wherever he can be put basically. The teacher is very vague about this, but we do hear, spent all morning out of class, tried to be put back in several times but it didnt work. Was dysregulated in the morning so spent all afternoon out of class etc.
Now this happens alot, hes not being taught in Year 5, talking about percentages for instance or sitting in staffs rooms while they work.
We are going to request a meeting with the senco to discuss the details of what's happening (if we are told the truth) of where hes being put, for how long, what's being done to help him and if he still gets his movement breaks in his ehcp when hes sitting in a one teacher classroom. Or us his movement break moving from one place to another.

Sorry it wasn't supposed to be so long....but what else can be done. Is this what should happen for the next year? Just moved around, babysat more and more.

Anyone had anything else put in place that worked?
There's no point him being there tbh. But he has to stay for awhile yet. Surely there's something else that can be done?

There is a separate room attached to the class, but I presume as hes not in there, it's needed for others. And I think it's to noisy for him if hes riled up.
I think thry are still just expecting him to sit in class and just learn.
Any ideas? Thank you!

What is the wording in EHCP around proper movement breaks like? The EHCP should account for staffing.

Is there TA time accounted for in the EHCP currently?

Rather than going up years, would going into reception work better? Or did DS find reception too chaotic and noisy?

What support is the school providing currently? What have they already tried that hasn’t worked? Have they asked the specialist teaching service for input? Has the school tried keeping a detailed diary/ABC charts/STAR analysis?

DS should be receiving an education. Not merely sent to HT’s office to draw or sit in a Y5 classroom which is clearly inappropriate for him.

Do you think DS is able to attend school? Have you thought about trying for AP?

Very much same questions as pp.

does he get movement breaks?
does he have ear defenders? Fidget/sensory toys in class? A chewy?

are the school trying different techniques before just placing him in office/other class room?

how many hours are on his EHCP?

are they carrying out things from OT report?
for example my son has hyper mobility and poor motor skills so writing hurts him, OT recommended writing on a slant.

The EHCP doesn't have anything really worthy in it, I feel I tried to add specifics from the sensory diet but was told that was for school to follow as part of it. They do have things written in his daily plan, movement breaks every 10 mins etc. But once hes out the class and getting moved around, I dont see that happening (which we will clarify in a future meeting with senco). We also have an updated sensory diet to add in the ehcp once we get a new private EP report to add aswell, which will be in the next 6 weeks.

It is just to be given by a responsible adult so I suppose that's how they can move him around away from the TA in his class. 5 to 10 minutes, a few times a day and suggestions of what to do with no specifics. As I say we do have a better one now.
He loved reception and they do use there aswell, but he just seems to be put everywhere, nothing consistent.
He has trampoline, a bit heavy work in the morning, I don't think its running consistently during the day but that's very hard to know unless you're there.
they provide a room thats not quiet enough for him, sensory tools, headphones he wont wear. I feel like (know) he is not being regulated, they cant meet his needs, everyone knows that, so now he is being more disruptive in class and its easier to just move him round. The teacher is very vague on the quick little chats we have at the door once in a while, when we meet with the senco, the teacher is never at the meeting, we never have any direct conversations with the teacher about how things are going and whats going on, how things are being dealt with.

We know the now and next board didnt work, but then whats currently being done isnt working either. I have handed an in depth regulation assessment in a few weeks ago and asking for a meeting but havent heard back, which I will ask for again, but I dont think they will want to do it/have time and they dont have to if its not in the EHCP, right?
I dont think they have tried ABC, STAR etc but they have alot of sen kids so probably would avoid all that work.

I don't think school does suit him or maybe the right school will?!. We are currently going towards tribunal next year for a SS, requested SS are going to visit him and say what they think, they may say they cant meet needs, in that case we will look at AP. Im up for anything really, but LA are insistent on mainstream at the moment.
Once we have EP visit and update EHCP for tribunal, then I am considering keeping him off on mental health, safety grounds as they cant meet needs and not keeping him safe then, plus if he continues just getting moved around, hes not learning. The more dysregulated he is the more unsafe he is and the more aggression we get at home. Considering doing that in 2 month until tribunal next year.
But would prefer him to stay in school, but not sure they will ever be able to keep him regulated, I have been told he is showing signs of burnout by a professional and it will happen eventually as he is in a constant state of fight, on alert.
I mean, how do you ever push a school to do whats in a report (eventually the EHCP) when they are struggling with time and lots of other children. How do you know it is being done when your child doesnt want to talk about school, or do you just take it that increased aggression, red marks and suspensions mean that things arent being done. They do try to put him back in class at times, but he just kicks off straight away, but then if they are not properly regulating him before going in, its not going to work.
We are heading in the right path with more reports and EHCP update, but what do we do in the meantime with him being passed around school, if they keep him in class then there will be more blow outs of aggression, but if they dont have special knowledge or time to regulate him as told in the report, then everything is just going in circles.
Its such a helpless situation when you cant just actually DO anything, then at pick up at the classroom door, you get told hes been very disengaged, dysregulated today, so has spent all morning/afternoon out of class. No other details.

What should be done with a child aswell that can't keep up, this is also why he gets annoyed and kicks off as hes said so many times he doesnt understand whats going on, most kids are spelling and writing sentences and hes just lost off. Theres alot of talking from the teacher and the children sit at their desks and move on with reading, spelling and hes just starting to get a bit quicker knowing his letters and it takes him a long time to put three letters together and doesnt necessarily make a word.

He does get some phonics in reception once a week but otherwise hes presumably being moved out of class because he cant keep up with the lesson and wont just sit bored. When we have asked the senco of some things before, she just explains they dont have enough staff. The LA say that is not an excuse, they just have to do it. He does have an increased budget at school. The LA say it is fine for him to be running a year behind and is normal. Although Im sure the EP will be putting it at a much bigger gap now. Its so sad its all back and forth and theres all these kids being damaged in the middle.

I think there is probably alot of questions in this long piece that I need to take to the school senco, i presume I can say I want his teacher there aswell for input. But then its the TAs that know more about him as the teacher is at the front of the class.

I think they maybe did try other techniques but feel they have given up, maybe just expected him to do and he won't.

No hours are on his EHCP for a TA unfortunately, we have the new OT report that has alot more in, chewy snacks, scribe, tablet, more movement breaks for longer, exact heavy work described but thats not in the ehcp yet, wont be until June unfortunately. Not sure I am going to get a quick fix in that time, but cant bear the aggression that increases at school and at home, the damage being done to him, the lack of learning, being outcast.

I recently took him to a SEN karate event, kids there including with more profound autism, younger, older, boys, girls. There were about 25 other children there, everyone generally doing as they were told by the parents. My DS was running around, jumping on people (playing) in and out of cupboards, not listening to any direction, just doing anything he wanted. I just dont know anymore, nothing seems to work. I didn;t mind, they didnt mind, he had fun but hes just extreme in everything.

Ask for a meeting with the SENCO, class teacher and TA.

Without staffing covered by the EHCP, the school will be more limited in what they can do compared to if the EHCP was better. However, it does sound like they could do more. They could be more consistent and proactive. They could look at triggers. They could look at DS spending more time in reception if that works. DS’s presentation tells you they aren’t doing everything in the reports, but that is unlikely without an improved EHCP, I’m afraid.

Academically, one year behind ARE would be well within the normal range of abilities within mainstream classrooms. However, if DS is struggling academically, that is immaterial. DS needs more support. Whether it is because the gap is actually wider or because DS needs adjustments to be able to access the curriculum around AREs (e.g. adjustments in delivery, adjustments in environment, adjustments in recording of work) or both.

I would listen to the professional telling you DS is on the verge of burnout.

If you don’t feel DS is able to attend school now, you don’t have to wait for the Tribunal to look at AP.

So where is this increased budget being spent?

does Have any 1:1 time stated in his plan?

you need everyone who is involved daily with your child at the meeting to find out what is going on.
Sorry but they sound horrendous and your poor child is close to burn out.

The EHCP doesn’t sound like it’s worth the paper it’s written on. What does he actually get from it?

Most Y1s are structured phonics, playtime, maths, lunch, other subjects. Is this the case for your son? If it is, then he is probably facing the most challenging subjects for him first, being burnt out and then unable to access other areas of learning. Other subjects areas should be made accessible to him (and in Y1 should be fun!!!!)

You mention he goes to Reception once a week for phonics. Why can’t he go every day? Why can’t that be his phonics set? This is not abnormal.

If you are seriously considering pulling him from school, I would approach looking to either formalise his afternoons out of class (ideally in Reception) and a plan for increasing his time in Y1. For example, do they have a fun Friday afternoon that he could start by joining? If this is not possible, try to arrange a reduced timetable.

Apologies, I did not see these replies, thank you for them!
In the last couple of weeks, we have just decided to home ed our DS, I had to give up work anyway. A few months ago I was a bit scared of the idea, now I am more than happy. I did always wonder if he could ever do school with PDA profile and his personality, but the school have completely put us off the school idea now. Especially with all the new bills coming in, I feel he would be better protected out of the system, rather than get stuck in the wrong place. And i can meet his needs 1 to 1, as his mother and continuously working at keeping him regulated. Its the best choice for us right now.
Its a shame, my ds was soo excited to start school, he hates it now, the idea has been ruined for him.

As for your questions, I could ask for a meeting with more staff as suggested, but i've requested twice, they are being as difficult as they can be. I'm worn out with the fight, it would be easier just pulling the plug and him just being home ed.

Yes, they could do alot more. all reports from experts handed in, say no time outs, no punishments. But, yet in the last few months I have found out more from my ds and others, Ive been digging. Time outs given straight away, I am pretty sure hardly any time is given to regulation. If he does something wrong, he is shouted at, he shouts back, the teacher shouts louder, he cries (this isnt every single time, but happens alot) he is given time out, which makes him miss play time, dinner time (so he misses half his lunch to eat) and also misses his favourite lessons. He also struggled last week in his worst lesson, motor skill issues and overwhelm on his brain. He got frustrated as he couldnt do it so they gave him time out, out of class and wouldn't let him do the next lesson. The next lesson is his favourite and they wouldnt let him do it until he had finished the previous work, which he struggles with. So missed the whole of the lesson he loves.
Definitely not proactive, looking at triggers or taking time to regulate him. I am pretty sure they are just expecting it to click and he will fit in. Tell him to sit down over and over, time out, miss the good stuff, a day out of class, given a box of fidgets, sat down to talk about bad behaviour and how you are supposed to react and engage with others. They will never change their mindset, its just punish, punish and the child will eventually conform and he isn't so they are getting heavier with the time outs and bad behaviour chats.

They are sounding even more horrendous, the more I find out.
I know his full budget isnt just for him and thats not how it works, but he is getting nothing of it to be honest. They have just spent alot of money (that they apparently didn't have for more TAs) into setting up another income source, setting up a new part that brings more cash into the school.

The EHCP hasn't much in it, but we are now working on a bullet proof one (for home and his future not for that school) I highly doubt they would ever carry it out anyway, as I have heard of others with specific things in F in the EHCP and its still straight to time out. No regulation.

I recently handed in a very thorough report to school, focusing on regulation, I had been recommended to the professional by several people saying the person had done wonders for their kid at school. I thought it would help the school too.
One item was a very simple thing, my child could do thereself, it would take 2 minutes, he just needed a reminder. It was to be minimum every 2 hours, but more often if the child was getting dysregulated. There were other things on the report obviously, but this was a quick fix that could be tried as a minimal effort maybe every hour, 1 hour 30 as needed. I was told it would be only done at break time, lunch time and afternoon break. I said that defeated the object, it was to help regulate. But was told by the teacher it would be done at those times and that was it, the report said every two hours, so it would be done no more. It was minimum 2 hours, so they are pushing it as they can. The thing is the starting time they have picked is an hour after he gets to school, so they have picked the two hour slot to fit into what suits them, not my ds.
From my point, I was foaming, but it told me everything I needed to know. There was going to be no time put in to help my son regulate, if they couldnt even give him a nod, to go off himself to do something that would take one minute, there would be no focus on helping him or understanding him. Its there way, or punishments. Yes, it isnt in his EHCP yet, but still, if you cared you could help with that small thing. There was definitely no point in bringing up other things in the report, like body checks and all other OT things, they dont even do the things off the first OT report we put in.

Thanks again for your time, but I think we have been completely burnt in this process, its consumed nearly all of my time for months and longer and I will be happy to have nothing else to do with it for aslong as I can (new bills dependent) and will enjoy this summer educating my DS in a fun, relaxed, regulating way :-D
I can also put alot more time into his fine and gross motor skills progression, than could ever happen with him just sitting at a desk. Thank you!