Help - 3 year old being kicked out of nursery

[MamaBear878]

Hi everyone
I am looking for any guidance or advice please
My 3 year old girl attends a setting that is attached to an independent school. We have suddenly been told that her behaviour cannot be managed at this setting and are now scrambling to find other options. I wanted her to delay starting school next year as we are likely looking at an ASD diagnosis with a significant speech delay. Her behaviour is not out of character for a stroppy 3 year old except that she cannot always communicate her meltdowns and why she has them.
In hindsight, I should never have looked at the independent sector when we had suspicions that she may have SEN needs as this particular setting is not fit for purpose. Atleast not the nursery portion. They had no SEN lead for the nursery and the staff were clueless when I asked about what was in place for her already for her additional needs. I know it’s a business at the end of the day but I feel so guilt ridden for not having stuck with the state sector and enrolled her into a state pre school where staff would have been way more competent and knowledgeable!!
We have left this late as this was sprung upon us but is there such a thing as independent schools for SEN kids? I ask as I fear we are now at the bottom of the list for any state specialist schools. We are looking to obtain an EHCP but I am wide awake at 4am as I feel so heartbroken at having got this so wrong :(
Thank you for any advice!

You would need an EHCP to be able to access a state special school and even with an EHCP the LA might not agree that a special school was needed. But have you looked at state schools near you with nursery/pre school provisions? It could well be that in a setting more used to dealing with SEN, her needs can be met. Most state school nurseries have a SENCO who will be familiar with this sort of need in a child of her age. They will also be able to support with an EHCP needs assessment if you decide to pursue that.

I would make a request for an EHC needs assessment now. Do not wait. The statutory timescale is 20 week but in my LA (and many others) it is taking over a year. It took 84 weeks to have an EHCP issued for my son and I had to lodge two tribunal claims.

Thank you so much both
its been a very stressful few days ..

There are independent special/specialist schools, some of which have nurseries. However, not all accept self funders and even when they do they can be incredibly expensive so most families can’t afford to self fund. There are also some independent specialist nurseries/standalone early years provisions, but, again, not all accept self funders and they can be expensive.

Request an EHCNA ASAP. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. LAs like to think the timescales don’t apply to them, but parents don’t have to accept unlawful behaviour, they can take steps to force the LA to act, including via JR if necessary.

It isn’t too late for state special/specialist schools. However, you will need an EHCP.

Some LAs have specialist early years assessment places for those going through the EHCNA process or who need to go through the EHCNA process. It is worth checking if your LA does.

If your LA has a specialist teaching service still, it is worth contacting them or if they only deal with cases that are referred to them by a professional, asking for a referral.

Before permanently excluding DD, what support did the school provide? What reasonable adjustments did they make?

Thank you @2x4greenbrick- that’s very helpful.

I wanted her to delay starting school next year as we are likely looking at an ASD diagnosis with a significant speech delay.

So this is the exact diagnosis the DS got, and he got his at 3.5 year old.

I, like you, considered delaying starting school, but I didn't and I'm glad I didn't and I'll tell you why exactly because I don't think I will change your mind but I do think you deserve enough information to make an informed decision.

1. Nurseries whilst good/outstanding on paper don't really offer a tailored curriculum especially for ND children, on top of that they may have a SENCo, but my experience is that the SENCo in nurseries don't do much. I'm not sure why, maybe it's that children aren't in nursery very long so they lack experience, and many people with suspected ND children don't send them to nurseries, but there seems to be a complete lack of prioritisation for SENCo responsibilities, including planning, reasonable adjustments, interacting and engaging with professionals, missing early help deadlines etc. This breakdown of trust between my sons nursery and I had me panicking that school would be the same.
2. Will your child be ready for mainstream school? No, probably not, however, in contrast to the above, school's primarily operate on a legal duty to provide education where nurseries do not. SENCos within primary schools are a lot more engaged and proactive, with more access to external teams and resources that can support a diagnosis, and once a diagnosis is achieved, they can help you use this to your advantage within an EHCP.
3. If your child starts reception at age 4, and they make no academic progress, they can resit reception at age 5. If they start reception at age 5 and they make no academic progress, it is significantly harder to advocate keeping them back in reception when they're age 6 and are physically bigger than the 4 and 5 years olds starting, and they lose the potential 1 year of school experience. Reception is primarily play based learning, it's very free form, and there are usually teaching assistants on hand. A lot of schools informally use teaching assistances as 1:1's or "special persons" for children who require additional supervision and additional support. If the SENCo suggests bringing in another team (for example, our SENCo brough in the social, communication and interaction team from our LA, and also the speech and language team who collaborated on cultivating different therapies such as the curiosity approach, attention autism, jump around and music therapy which all focus on speech patterns, waiting and taking turns, and cooperation as foundations to build on as opposed to phonics, spelling and maths) then in my experience again it is the teaching assistants that get this training supplied to them so that they can support your child. It's better to get this in early rather than later as it's a type of early intervention so that if the year needs to be resat, there's a good foundational base to build from.

Your daughter will need an EHCP. You don't need a diagnosis for an EHCP, but a lot of evidence for both an EHCP and diagnosis can be acquired concurrently, and it's much easier to do this in school than at home, as a diagnosis usually requires evidence that the traits of autism are present in more than 1 setting.

My son actually is resitting reception for a third year, which is rare. This is only because his needs were identified in our case, before school started as he had already gotten a diagnosis, whereas you're still in that pathway, and we're 3 years into battling the LA for an appropriate specialist school to be named, and due to some funny buggery by the LA, I've once again had to call an early annual review so I can appeal the named placement. If you think your daughter might need specialist school, then it's again all about timing. You need to know what you're doing, when you're doing it, and be so on the ball about everything and the earlier you do it, the better.

It can be scary, and it can feel like you don't know what the best choice is for your child, and honestly it can be a bit of a postcode lottery too. I just wanted to share my experience with you.

@Jimmyneutronsforeheadi cannot explain how much it means to me that you’ve taken that time out to explain all this to a stranger - thank you thank you!
I will definitely take everything you’ve said on board

Thank you @2x4greenbrick!
the school / nursery were absolutely useless and they’ve truly opened my eyes as to how poor independent sector can be for this sort of thing !

If you ever want to chat and have questions, I am happy for you to send a PM.

Is this technically legal? Sounds discriminatory.

I suspect it isn't because she cannot be managed but they just don't want any SEN kids at their school.