Need advice on school placement options — ASD/ADHD, Y4, Surrey/SW London

[SchoolHelper]

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Looking for different perspectives or advice on what our options and compromises might be for our DS (8, Y4) — diagnosed ASD and ADHD, cognitively able / “high functioning.”
Background:
• Has an EHCP (we are appealing wording and placement, though LA agrees he needs a SEN school).
• Currently in mainstream.
• Location: SW London / Surrey borders.
• We have private professional reports (EP due to reassess soon) — all point to a need for a specialist school.
• Y3 was extremely difficult; school environment was a major trigger.
• Since starting ADHD medication and with current EHCP support, Y4 is much calmer and settled.
• He’s academically capable, strong memory, great with topics he loves — but also needs therapeutic input (SALT, OT, emotional regulation work).
• Private EP will soon assess cognitive profile, as LA EP did not.

The dilemma:
After a starting list of around 30 schools and visiting as many as we could if permited, plus dicpunting some, we’re stuck.

• Academic ASD/SEN schools won’t take him — his EHCP still reflects fight/flight and risk behaviours from Y3, which are no longer current.

• for example these behaviours were not aggression towards children or destroying the classroom

• other ASD /SEMH schools often feel too low academically, or focus on trauma based profiles that don’t fit him. • Some schools are “full” or only take new pupils from Y5. • We don’t want to undershoot academically, but also don’t want him to break down again.

Questions / what we’re struggling with:
• Do we compromise academically (go for a lower-demand therapeutic setting now) and later move him if he stabilises — or is that too disruptive?
• Should we hold out until the EHCP is fully reworded to reflect the “current” him and hope he can stay in mainstream in the meantime?
• How realistic is it to later move between specialist settings once named on an EHCP?
• Is it common for schools to refuse based on outdated reports, even when we have medical evidence showing progress (psychiatrist, paediatrician, etc.)?
• For those with similar profiles (ASD + ADHD, cognitively strong but emotionally volatile), what kind of schools or settings actually worked?
We’ve also found that some schools seem to make assumptions or even invent diagnoses that aren’t in his reports — for example, claiming his primary need is SEMH or that he has PDA, when nowhere in any of the professional assessments (paediatrician, psychiatrist, EP, SALT, OT) is that stated. Is this common? It feels like schools are interpreting or re-labelling what they read in the EHCP rather than taking the clinical evidence at face value, and I’m unsure how to challenge that or whether it’s something others have faced.
We’ve done everything we can — private assessments, reports, appeals — but feel lost on what type of school or next step makes most sense given there is so much unknown / confusion but a huge need to get him out.

Any thoughts or experiences would be hugely appreciated.

Also im not saying he is 100% different from last year but there has been a huge shift and I cant get my head around why there appears to be no place for him (and children like him)

Some schools are “full”

Are these schools wholly independent or not? For schools that are not wholly independent, on its own, ‘full’ is not a lawful reason.

only take new pupils from Y5

When is your hearing? This might not be a problem.

Is it common for schools to refuse based on outdated reports, even when we have medical evidence showing progress (psychiatrist, paediatrician, etc.)?

Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: you only need an offer of a place for wholly independent schools (and not all independent schools are wholly independent). Schools who are not wholly independent can be named against their will. It is fairly common for wholly independent schools to refuse to offer a place based on the EHCP that is out of date. Many are willing to review the case if informed the EHCP is not an accurate reflection, you are appealing, and when provided with accurate up to date evidence. For non wholly independent schools, the same applies but swap offer of a place with only their response to consultation. In both cases, it can help to contact the school(s) yourself to make sure they have an accurate picture.

We’ve also found that some schools seem to make assumptions or even invent diagnoses that aren’t in his reports — for example, claiming his primary need is SEMH or that he has PDA, when nowhere in any of the professional assessments (paediatrician, psychiatrist, EP, SALT, OT) is that stated. Is this common? It feels like schools are interpreting or re-labelling what they read in the EHCP rather than taking the clinical evidence at face value, and I’m unsure how to challenge that or whether it’s something others have faced.

Schools will (attempt to) read between the lines and interpret the EHCP. This is because EHCPs are often poor. Often schools don’t get all the evidence. Even when they do, they may not read it in depth. Again, contacting schools and ensuring they have an accurate picture and all the up to date evidence will help. There may also be discussions between school and LA you are not aware of. The information in these emails may not always be accurate. SARs can help if you suspect this.

Should we hold out until the EHCP is fully reworded to reflect the “current” him and hope he can stay in mainstream in the meantime?

If your preference is SS, I would look to pursue that now. I would go back to any wholly independent schools you think could meet needs, provide them with accurate information, and attempt to discuss their concerns. You have nothing to lose. Some do reconsider. If there are any schools you think could meet needs who are not wholly independent, you don’t need an offer of a place in order to pursue a place via appeal.

How realistic is it to later move between specialist settings once named on an EHCP?

It is possible. Although you may have to appeal again. Also be aware, being placed in an all through school now doesn’t guarantee the LA will continue to name it for secondary.

Do we compromise academically (go for a lower-demand therapeutic setting now) and later move him if he stabilises — or is that too disruptive?

Some thoughts:
The school DS attends now doesn’t have to be the school he always attends. In fact, you couldn’t guarantee it would be. How does DS cope with change?
Some DC cope well in a cohort who is academically at a different level to them. Others don’t. It is worth thinking about which camp DS falls into.
Some schools whose typical cohort isn’t so academic can/are willing to still provide the academic challenge for individual pupils (whether that is via them making their own arrangements, bringing outside staff in, or via other arrangements off-site.). There is also the possibility part of the academic provision could be made otherwise than in school.
DC don’t learn if they are in an unsuitable environment. It is little use having a school that meets DS’s academic needs if it doesn’t also meet his other needs. Do you think it is feasible for DS to remain in MS? Especially as he moves through KS2.

Thanks so much this is very helpful – I am going to answer for clarity but don’t expect you to spend time replying – was very kind of you to do so in the first place – this is such a crazy world – learning everyday!

Are these schools wholly independent or not? For schools that are not wholly independent, on its own, ‘full’ is not a lawful reason.

I do have this distinction on my spreadsheet and I am aware of the full not meaning full and that is also giving us some hope
The problem is “full” schools wont allow visits so its going in a bit blind and ironically those that we are getting visits to /open days are the ones not suitable (eg capellla i liked but i dont think his primary needs is SC). Feels like we just have to take a “punt” – regardless of how many people we talk to or look on websites etc / drive past etc

When is your hearing? This might not be a problem.

Agree and I think this is what I am having to come to terms with that regardless of how fast we got the private inputs and EHCP and regardless of the fact the LA say they will honour a SEN school that because we need to appeal wording etc he wont actually be moved for some time. This might be more a me problem, my impatience and the fact I know he needs a better environment (and EVERYONE agrees…. its just currently stalling)

Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: you only need an offer of a place for wholly independent schools (and not all independent schools are wholly independent). Schools who are not wholly independent can be named against their will. It is fairly common for wholly independent schools to refuse to offer a place based on the EHCP that is out of date. Many are willing to review the case if informed the EHCP is not an accurate reflection, you are appealing, and when provided with accurate up to date evidence. For non wholly independent schools, the same applies but swap offer of a place with only their response to consultation. In both cases, it can help to contact the school(s) yourself to make sure they have an accurate picture.

Ok this is interesting and I wasn’t aware of being named against will – looking at my excel I see two that refused us on presentation are S41 (Unstead and Roehampton) and one that we have open days booked are also section 41 (Brookways)

Schools will (attempt to) read between the lines and interpret the EHCP. This is because EHCPs are often poor. Often schools don’t get all the evidence. Even when they do, they may not read it in depth. Again, contacting schools and ensuring they have an accurate picture and all the up to date evidence will help. There may also be discussions between school and LA you are not aware of. The information in these emails may not always be accurate. SARs can help if you suspect this.

Again interesting and helpful
As far as I am aware they have all the professional reports however who knows how they select
I will be making sure they all get the up to date private EP report (when its compete) which will have the current school reflections and also the psychiatrist report which will clear up the schools inventing the diagnosis that they have been & show he is presenting differently
LA seem to be consulting with NO one on our behalf and have basically left it up to us – 100% in the dark with no help and figuring this out for ourselves – so we have not requested any referrals due to initial incorrect wording
The LA also did no assessments as part of their own NA process and relied on our private reports
The LA EP report was actually school commissioned “help us” before the parental NA went in and then was used and submitted by the school when they were asked for information
As another way to discount schools – I am not sure we want to revist the ones making diagnosis up – maybe misconstruing the words but not inventing a whole new person eg) “no…as he had XYZ” it strikes as a bit charlatan to me

If your preference is SS, I would look to pursue that now. I would go back to any wholly independent schools you think could meet needs, provide them with accurate information, and attempt to discuss their concerns. You have nothing to lose. Some do reconsider. If there are any schools you think could meet needs who are not wholly independent, you don’t need an offer of a place in order to pursue a place via appeal.

Thanks so much – as above will revisit those when have the new reports and not wait. At least it will strike them off the list if they still say no and we move on
Again thanks on the not needing an offer to pursue at appeal

It is possible. Although you may have to appeal again. Also be aware, being placed in an all through school now doesn’t guarantee the LA will continue to name it for secondary.

Noted thank you

Some thoughts:
The school DS attends now doesn’t have to be the school he always attends. In fact, you couldn’t guarantee it would be. How does DS cope with change?
Some DC cope well in a cohort who is academically at a different level to them. Others don’t. It is worth thinking about which camp DS falls into.
Some schools whose typical cohort isn’t so academic can/are willing to still provide the academic challenge for individual pupils (whether that is via them making their own arrangements, bringing outside staff in, or via other arrangements off-site.). There is also the possibility part of the academic provision could be made otherwise than in school.
DC don’t learn if they are in an unsuitable environment. It is little use having a school that meets DS’s academic needs if it doesn’t also meet his other needs. Do you think it is feasible for DS to remain in MS? Especially as he moves through KS2.

Thanks food for thought and I did like the school that they said “adapted” for the pupil eg) a Y6 working at Y10 maths etc (not that that is him) but might be at Y5/6 in other subjects

Also at MS school they are with a mix of abilities – so maybe should not overthink this

Thanks for the willingness point – I think I will take that on board and ask at open days with regard to questions

Agree with you on last point so again overthinking the education at the moment – hopefully a SS school would recognise if he needed a different setting / change

overall a huge thank you

This has been really helpful to consolidate my thoughts – was like I was running along an endless tunnel with doors taking me back to the start!

And no one can really help / has answers as much as we all need them to as no one has all the information eg) complete school list and understanding of these schools, the knowledge of my child as a person plus all the professional inputs on him (current and historical)

In short I am going to:

• Get the new professional reports & current term presentation (early Dec)
• Ask the LA to consult
• Revisit the Section 41 and also Indy SS schools with the new paperwork
• not let the appeal hold me up - just progress that as a separate workstream

I think that then covers all avenues apart from what type of school would suit him so hopefully the EP will help us discount ones eg SEMH or communication needs schools

Thanks again

Updated evidence will help you decide on what type of school will meet DS’s needs. It is hard, but even if LAs give advice, I wouldn’t rely on it.

Personally, I wouldn’t rule out schools solely on the fact they have invented a diagnosis. Some schools receive a large number of consultations and things can become confused. Especially when they may not have had/read all the information.

If you already had independent reports, it is OK for the LA not to seek updated advice and information. In fact, if you, the LA and the report writer agree existing evidence is sufficient for the EHCNA, the LA must not seek new evidence. The problem is LAs often say it isn’t sufficient even when it is so they can seek their own vague and woolly evidence.

If you want to appeal I as well as B&F, the appeal isn’t so much a separate workstream to making decisions about your preferred school. It is all part of the appeal process. Not all parents who appeal know which specific school is their preference initially. That’s fine. You don’t need to know straight away. Some may not even know the type of school. That is also OK initially.

thanks again helpful and now a new point learnt.

solicitor said the below hence why this is feeling like an urgent decision (or maybe i have too much faith in the L that they will honor their commitment to a SEN school - even if it is written down)

....our advice is for us to request for the hearing to be expedited to an earlier date given the circumstances, however, we must ensure a suitable school has been identified prior to lodging this request with the Tribunal.

i believe the circumstances are we have all the private paperwork plus updated evidenced to re-wite the ehcp and should also have a school.. amd the LA has nothing to contest

(we are appealing BFI)

many thanks

The LA is likely to object to an expedited hearing if you don’t have a preference. SENDIST may agree with them if you haven’t proposed a specific school as your preference or they may expedite the hearing but give you an earlier deadline for replying with your preference, which is why your solicitor has said what they have. Early in the appeal process, you don’t have to state your proposed placement, its OK if you don’t know, but it is no good having an earlier hearing date if you won’t be sure of your preference in time for that to go ahead and an earlier hearing date is less likely to be agreed without your preference being known.

It isn’t just about the LA agreeing SS is required. It is about what SS. They could try to put a special school you really don’t want on the table, potentially at the last moment. That is why it is important your case stands up to that kind of behaviour from the LA.

ok got it. my goodness this is so confusing.

so lets for arguments sake

1. remove the fully independent type of school and i am left with the below

Other independent special school
Free schools special
Academy special converter
Other independent special school - Section 41
Community special school

2. all the remaining need LA referrals to progress
3. in this example we are confident in our final shortlist and schools to our best knowledge are suitable
4. we ask LA to refer to these schools with updated reports (EP, Psychiatric)
5. they come back with "can meet needs"
6. then visits / assessments / offers come in
7. and then we say to solicitor - we name XXX school?

is that how it works?

this is far too confusing! so grateful for your help - no one seems to know anything (i mean our solicitors are helpful but its cost and they dont really guide us in placement iyswim)

@2x4greenbrick you should set up a consultancy ;-)

You can ask the LA to consult with the schools on your shortlist (the LA may consult or may not - I will come back to that below). When they do that, you should also contact the schools to ensure they have an accurate picture and all up to date evidence - some even provide them with the latest version of the WD. The schools will then respond (or not - I will come back to that) to the consultation. During this process, the school may speak to you/offer a visit/assessment day(s) but not all will. Once you have decided on your preference you/your solicitor can inform SENDIST/the LA.

If the LA refuse to send a consultation to a school, you can ask SENDIST to Order them to. If a non-wholly independent school doesn’t respond to a consult, it is usually taken as a positive consult. If one of these schools then becomes your preferred placement, the LA will be required to submit to SENDIST various things from and about this school.

Thanks again @2x4greenbrick

So a non response to consult is taken as a "no objection" therefore a yes

But then we would have to be pretty sure it was the correct school for us in case they actually wanted to say no

Aaah why is all this so hard? Just exhausting

Thanks so much. One day I might be wise as you and pass it on rather than clueles!

Have a good evening x

You are right; it is exhausting and relentless.

So a non response to consult is taken as a "no objection" therefore a yes

For a non-wholly independent school, it often is, but not always.

Consulting with a school doesn’t mean it has to subsequently be your preference. However, yes, you should be careful about what schools you ask the LA to consult with. It isn’t wise to ask them to consult with schools you don’t actually want.

Thanks. Im almost at the juncture of giving up. But I know i cant. So much time and effort to get here and still feels no real return on the investment. And all the time DS in the place that caused him so much upset.

Shouldn't be this hard and I've had it relatively easy reading some posts

🌻

You can do this.

Im almost at the juncture of giving up.

This is why LAs behave the way they do. They know some will give up. Even if people see it all the way to the conclusion of an appeal, it kicks the can down the road. It is reprehensible behaviour which, from their PoV, is successful. It saves money.