Mainstream or SEN school I really need advice please

[MamaTo3under4]

Hi, my 4 year old son is starting mainstream school in a few weeks ( a little bit late as we are moving homes so he would of started in September) he is non verbal, autistic and has quite alot
of sensory problems and fixations, he loves messy play and dangerous things that he isn’t meant to play with, he does understand ALOT he is very very clever in the sense that he can figure out alternative ways of getting into things etc and opening stair gates and locked doors. Anyway I’m just so torn on the SEN schools and mainstream schools his previous nursery teacher would always make comments as if I’m making the wrong decision by sending him to mainstream school and so do some family members, it really upsets me because I believe it my son I think with the right support in place he could thrive in a mainstream school but I’m constantly been made to feel guilty for sending him there, I really don’t know what to do I just want some advice please as I don’t know who to speak to about it without biased opinions

also his previous nursery has applied for EHCP but it was rejected so I’m hoping his reception teacher can apply again and we have more luck

sorry about the long paragraph lol just need to
get it off my chest :)

Without an EHCP, your question is moot. It is highly, highly unlikely you will get a place in a special school. Some LAs have specialist early years assessment places for those who are going through or need to go through the EHCNA process, but even that is unlikely at 4 at this point in reception.

Did you appeal the EHCP refusal?

You can request an EHCNA yourself. You don’t need the school to do it. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. If you are moving LA soon, I would just wait until you move and make the request to the new LA.

With an EHCP, if MS is what you want, you have a right to a mainstream education unless it would be incompatible with the efficient education of others and no reasonable steps could avoid this. Having said that, I think you should keep an open mind, especially as DS gets older. MS can be impossible for some non-verbal DC &/or DC with significant sensory difficulties.

Thank you I really appreciate your comment, I didn’t appeal as the reason for it being declined was “not enough evident” so I would discouraged to appeal by the nursery as they said there’s not much point they told me to wait until
he starts reception

Hi

My child presents differently to yours but we are moving from mainstream to special. He has high complex needs, cognitively able, adhd asd and very socially motivated. Quite misleading. So appears mainstream would work fine. But it doesn't. The support just cant be implemented.

Some schools (for my child's needs) will only admit via EHCP. And from the sound of it your child should have an EHCP regardless of if they will be fine in mainstream.

Hence what i am saying is ... in the absence of a special school right now and if you want him to start school, go mainstream, apply for a parental needs assesment - see IPSEA guidance then he hopefully will get funding for support and if you push a specialist setting if thats what is best for him. (However dont hold me to it being that easy...)

I read this when all the professionals were talking about a special school and it made me feel better and see what was best for him.

You need to scroll to the bottom to read it (at least on my phone) its called "who's afraid of special. Schools"

https://senmagazine.co.uk/content/education/7682/who-s-afraid-of-special-schools/amp/

Hi @Tonianlillythanks for your message I appreciate it, Its all new to me so excuse me if I sound abit uneducated lol, but do I need to apply for the parental needs assessment for him to get support in mainstream or can I just let the school contact the send people and apply for a ehcp if so what is the difference x

And can I apply for that aswell as the school applying for ehcp? @Tonianlilly

Unfortunately, you were given bad advice by the nursery. You could have sought further evidence.

I wouldn’t wait for the school to request an EHCNA. I would do it yourself ASAP (or as soon as you move if you are moving LAs soon). That applies whether your preference is mainstream or special school. The level of support DS needs is well beyond what is typically available at a SEN support level in mainstream. If you request an EHCNA, the school doesn’t have to also request one. And vice versa. It is the same thing that is requested.

I should add to my previous post that there are some independent special schools you accept self funders, but the schools for the needs you describe are very expensive and beyond the reach of the vast majority. Although they can be named and funded via the EHCP.

Ok thank you I’m going to get onto it asap! I have no idea I could do it myself! @flawlessflipper

What does LA mean? @flawlessflipper

LA is local authority.

@MamaTo3under4 flawlessflipper knows more than me as im 9 months into the journey.

But what I figured out is:

-the ehcna needs assement request is the first step for an ehcp

• parents can request this
• the legal.bar is very low and your sons 💯 should be granted one (im ignoring that so many are denied just for this example).

-the school, nursery might tell you they cant apply as they need to have "2 cycles of evidence" and spend £xk on your child before the local authority will assess. -this is unlawful and hence if like my school they keep refusing then you request the needs assessment yourself. -there is a letter you can use as a template to send in to the LA as flawless flipper said

• if the la then say fill.in these forms - fill them in but the letter date is the kick off for the 6 weeks to decide if they will.asses.
• given your sons needs you will.have plenty of evidence from professionals to back you up

With regard to special schools as flawless flipper said you will probably need to access these with funding from an ehcp

You can look at the local offer on your local authority website to see if any vaguely fit his needs and their websites will explain how to apply

• in the perfect world - you get the echp and support he needs written in and the setting you want (mainstream with heaps of scofflding) or special school

But the first step is getting the NA request in, not waiting for school.

-the school will also have to contribute at somepoint in the process and im sure will have plenty of evidence by then. Oddly our school were asked to provide information before the la agreed to the NA.

You also might want to post about your specific local authority as some seem to have habits of doing x y z

Ive recently used sossen charity and found them very helpful to talk through specifics with.

Best of luck x

@Tonianlillyahh your a diamond thank you for explaining everything that makes so much sense, il going to get on with everything on Monday if you don’t mind I might keep coming back to This if i need to ask you anything so keep an eye out please lol xx

Sure no problem. Im no expert still many many questions myself and demystifying to do!

What I forgot to add is there is something called a graduated response that your school and local authority should have.

It's like a pyramid with the EHCP funding at the top (eg highest the mainstream sxhool can get) and at the lowest level you have "easy wins" fornsay his sensory needs etc

Eg) my son with asd and adhd gets fiddle toys / a timer / a timetable / his own desk without the ehcp (apologies appreciate this isnt to compare with your sons but you will know what could work for him)

So not huge costs.

I found chatgtp very helpful in explaining things. Although of course disclaimer it may be wrong but helped me connect the dots. I wouldn't use it to quote legislation.

Definitely look at sossen though as you can be so specific to your case. They have drop ins too which you can use if close to you.

Also get your senco meetings booked in. Be nice but not too nice!

Good luck

@Tonianlilly LAs should approach the current placement before deciding whether to assess or not. That is why one of the lawful exceptions to complying with notifying the parents within 6 weeks if they will assess or not is when it is impractical for the LA to comply because they have sought advice from the school/nursery during the period beginning one week before they close for a period of 4+ weeks and ending one week before they re-open from a closure of 4+ weeks.

When looking for schools, don’t only rely on the LA’s local offer. You can search for schools here.

@MamaTo3under4 even without an EHCP, state mainstream schools must make reasonable adjustments and must make their best endeavours to meet DS’s SEN. When you know what school DS will be starting when you move, request a meeting with the SENCO.

@flawlessflipper i said oddly as they set the deadline for the school to respond to their request on a friday and they advised us they granted us a needs assement the monday before the school deadline. All the information I provided was enough for them to do so. I wasnt aware they had to approach the current setting to assist them in their decision. Hence why it makes no sense for a parent not to make the assesment request if the setting will have tomleagll respond anyway in the 6 weeks.

It's all a mess anyway. Smoke and mirrors

I would get the ball rolling gathering as much evidence for an EHCP now if you have missed the window to appeal the refusal to assess.

Have you had any involvement from SALT, OT, paediatrician or other professionals? Any information from nursery to show he requires more support than OAP, any communications about incidents, reports etc.

Because for now your options are limited to mainstream or don't send him until you go through the ehcp process. He doesn't have to be attending school for you to apply, but there is the benefit of school being able to contribute their observations and assessments to support the request for a needs assessment that otherwise you wouldn't have.

In my experience although not a requirement, school themselves are very reluctant to request an EHCNA without having been through at least two cycles of assess, plan, do, review before they will considering applying for an EHCP themselves, and a lot if not all LA's have this as their policy to gatekeep school's EHCP requests (similar to the 6k notional spend) which are not what the law says is needed but still LA's will turn down as many requests as possible knowing not everyone will appeal.

However you can and I would suggest you do, make a parental request for the ehc needs assessment and alongside any medical and nursery evidence you have, also talk to the school about your plan so they can provide any extra evidence. Once he is on the SEN register any IEPs/support plans and one page profile etc.

I personally wish I had pushed for a SEN school but every child is different. Reception was fine with a high level of support but from y1 the wheels began to fall off. My son was non conversational when he started Reception but did have words, but significant phonological and articulation difficulties. Adhd and autism and dyspraxia with significsnt sensory processing difficulties.

The reason for mainstream not being the right place for my son was multifactorial. Firstly I regret home not having access to hogh quality onsite SALT and OT. Even with his EHCP the amount and quality of SALT and OT thry provided was poor. His DLA is used for private SALT and that is the only reason he can now communicate verbally.

The main reason MS was not right for himcis the sensory overwhelm of 30 children, the noise and business of the school. He needed a low arousal calm classroom and mainstream isn't that which led to refusal /ebsna.

He also needs a lot of support with learning and is working quite a few years behind age related expectations. He really wasn't able to understand or learn and was never felt a part of the class but like he was lumped in there as an outsider, without a friendship group and stuck with a full time TA whose job seemed to be to make sure he wasn't too disruptive.

The grand idea of inclusion and that mainstream will be the best education for all but those with the most profound SEND is a nice idea but in reality doesn't work for so many. Of course SOME children with SEND do thrive in MS with adjustments but many more do not. My experience was that the limited adjustments in mainstream on thr name.of inclusion were actually just small changes aim at firefighting the flames while the gas feeding the fire is still flowing. Giving regular breaks away from the whole class to regulate is not inclusion when thrle classroom is overestimating and busy.

My son is not every autistic child though and for your son he may thrive. If the school are well informed on his SEND from yourself and nursery I would see how he finds it while you request the ehcp. If school agree they are not able to meet his needs once you have the plan then you can review your options - every child has the right to a MS education if you feel that is what is best. Likewise if mainstream schools do say they can meet need it will be a fight to get specialist.

Good luck.

every child has the right to a MS education if you feel that is what is best.

The bar is high, but not quite. As per section 33 of the Children and Families Act 2014, there is a right to a mainstream education unless it is incompatible with the efficient education for others and there are no reasonable steps that could prevent this. Although this is not a right to a specific mainstream placement.

SS doesn't always mean more therapies than MS. The provision needs to be detailed, specified and quantified whatever the setting. Many SS only provide what is in F and no more. If F is inadequate, you could look to appeal when you next have the right of appeal.

@Tonianlilly I agree with you about requesting an EHCNA yourself. The systems some LAs use auto-generate the deadlines for responses, but sometimes they make decisions before that. Or even though it doesn’t sound like it was the case in your situation, sometimes placements respond before the deadline.

Hi OP, I have a 4 year old son who sounds very similar to your boy- awaiting autism assessment, nonverbal apart from the occasional word, highly active and quite skilled at breaking into things, (I suspect there’s ADHD there too), learning difficulties. He’s just started reception at a mainstream school- I have the added complication that he’s a twin and they didn’t want to be separated, but his fraternal twin is verbal, developmentally normal and well-suited to mainstream school.

His nursery started the ball rolling for his EHCP but we’re still awaiting the outcome of that.

DS is really enjoying school- I think the mostly play-based learning of reception is fine for his level, but I suspect that if he doesn’t “catch up” then the more formal teaching of year 1 will probably mean that he might be more suited to a specialist setting at that stage. I’ve started researching the special schools in our LEA.

Parent’s evening will be here soon, so I’ll follow up on the ECHP and see where we go from there.

My elder daughter had a friend in her class with complex needs, and at the end of KS1 an assessor advised that she was a candidate for a specialist school, so they seem to have systems in place for identifying the children with complex needs who are better suited to a specialist provision.

I find understanding the process for getting support quite overwhelming at times though! if you haven’t already done so, you can apply for DLA for children if he has additional care needs.