Section G of an ehcp. How?!

[ConfidentlyConfuddled]

DS16 has an ehcp. I have requested a review as his MH has dived and his current plan has little mention of his MH difficulties.

He is on a waiting list for cognitive therapies with camhs; we’ve been told he’ll be waiting almost a year. DS can not wait a year, whilst he’s not at risk, the strain on him and our family is very challenging. He will not go outside of our home and often refuses school.

I’ve been told that DS therapies cannot be added to his ehcp in section F because these (when they do happen) will take place outside of school and school hours. I’ve been told they can go in to the health section.

Can anyone advise how I would get specified provision in to section G? DS has reports outlining the difficulties and confirming he has been added to a waiting list for cognitive therapies.

The therapies should be in F of the EHCP. Whoever told you otherwise misinformed you. You may need to appeal when you have the right of appeal following the review.

It was our case rep from our local council sen team who told me that therapies can only go in F if they are done within school hours. Can NHS therapies delivered from home go in F?

I was told everything in section F has to be something which is carried out by school. For example, if DS needed cbt in school for x number of hours per week, the school would facilitate it under section F.

However, as DS is unable to access cbt at school (because he’s extremely private), we would have to do this outside of school hours and therefore (they say) it’s meant to be in Section G.

DS16 anxiety is very broad so would also fall under health as it’s camhs who will deliver it, but without the cbt, he struggles to access school without lots of anxiety (meltdowns before school and some days I have to take him home). None of this is in his plan other than a bit of advice in Section C. I am being passed from pillar to post and I’m unsure what to believe.

Don’t believe everything the LA tells you. LAs often give parents incorrect information based on their own unlawful policies rather than the actual law.

Health care provision that educates or trains is deemed to be special educational provision. Thos is stated in section 21 of the Children and Families Act 2014. This includes things like CBT.

The therapies, regardless of who goes on to deliver them or where/when they go on to be delivered, should be in F. If it is in F, the LA is ultimately responsible for them.

Not everything has to be delivered in school. It isn’t uncommon for DC to have therapies in F that aren’t delivered by or in school.

As I said, you may have to appeal when you have the right of appeal following the review.

It is importantly the provision is in F rather than G because it is far easier to enforce provision in F.

@perpetualplatespinning Thank you for explaining, I did query this because it made me wonder what the point of the health parts were if they weren’t relevant to section F. I do have the evidence to say DS has been recommended cbt, so if I appeal, I’m assuming it will be the tribunal who decides where it goes in the plan? It sounds like it’s fairly clear that it should be in there, it’s the very nature of DS SEN and it’s barely mentioned in his current plan.

If you appeal, you will need to appeal section B&F. SENDIST will decide if it is to be included in F or not.

You could have an extended appeal for section C&G if you want, but the therapy won’t go in there.

You need more evidence than just CBT is recommended. It needs to be written in the correct way for an EHCP. So needs to be detailed, specified and quantified. Rather than vaguely recommended.

@perpetualplatespinning we won’t know how many sessions or hours DS16 will be assigned until he reaches the top of the waiting list. There’s a waiting list to be added to the waiting list for a triage who will then look again at the camhs assessment and decide what to do with DS. Do you know if there’s a way to speed this up whilst in review? I can’t see any way of getting it specified to go in a plan because the wait is so long.

This is what I meant. You will need more evidence. You may need to seek independent evidence for an appeal.

we won’t know how many sessions or hours DS16 will be assigned until he reaches the top of the waiting list. There’s a waiting list to be added to the waiting list for a triage who will then look again at the camhs assessment and decide what to do with DS.

This isn’t how EHCPs work. Evidence needs to be detailed, specified and quantified. For example, who, what, when, frequency, duration… The provision reasonably required must be detailed, specified and quantified in F. Then DC do not need to sit on the normal waiting lists. And it wouldn’t be up to CAMHS to then decide what to provide. The LA must ensure the provision in F is provided.

@perpetualplatespinning thank you again. This is what I said to our sen worker, that I want it in the plan to ensure he gets the provision without having to wait; they told me having an ehcp won’t push him up the list.

I have the basic evidence of need, but can’t get it specified until he sees camhs in a year. The appeal will also likely take a year. It makes me wonder if there’s any point. You’re right I will need better evidence, but as it will take a year to get it in the plan, I may as well just spend the money on getting DS private therapy! What a crazy system this is.

As I said, don’t believe everything the LA tells you. As per section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014, the LA is responsible for the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F. Waiting lists are not a lawful excuse for breaching s42, and provision can be enforced.

Yes, an appeal will take time. IMO it is still worth doing because CAMHS therapy will probably just be a block of sessions. Provision in EHCPs can be for longer. I suspect the EHCP needs improving in other ways, too. For example, I suspect it doesn’t include OT and SALT. And if DS isn’t attending full time, you can request an expedited hearing.

Is another placement required if DS can’t attend full-time? On this note, if DS isn’t attending school full-time, is alternative provision in place?

@perpetualplatespinning Speech therapy and OT were not included in the needs assessment . It’s a new ehcp, less than a year old and I’ve already had to ask for a review as nothing has changed. DS did go through a period of non attendance but he only has the occasional day off now. Although, we do have lots of issues with him at home not wanting to go.

I will take heed of your advice and try to get things in place to tighten up the plan and potentially look at moving him to a more suitable placement. Thank you for your help, you’ve given me lots to think about.

If you appeal B&F to pursue CBT, you should also pursue amendments to include SALT And OT.

@perpetualplatespinning I will certainly do that.

Looking at DS16 current EHCP, it says in Section G “X is on a waiting list for OT”. I had no idea as this was only briefly mentioned by our GP when we first applied for the plan.

This is listed as his provision, is that why he doesn’t receive it?

On the waiting list for OT means absolutely nothing. And OT provision needs to be detailed, specified and quantified in F - that way it is enforceable and waiting lists are irrelevant. So, short answer, yes that is why DS isn’t receiving OT.

@perpetualplatespinning the more I’m learning about his plan, the more sense it makes that his support isn’t up to scratch.

Could I go back to the council and ask them to contact OT to get him seen? Or would I need to appeal? Sorry for the questions, I am out of my depth.

You could ask the LA to ask OT to assess. However, outside of a needs assessment, they aren’t very likely to agree, especially for an assessment including sensory OT.

I wouldn’t formally request a reassessment of needs. It is likely would still need to appeal so it wastes time and there’s no guarantee it would be a good report anyway.

Instead, following the review, you will probably have to appeal anyway, so I would seek an independent OT assessment and use it as part of your appeal.

Even if you have section F absolutely crystal clear no woolly items nothing for the LA to escape providing it.

They still do. Yes you can jump through all the hoops. But ultimately you could not receive it. We have been in that situation one year plus

All a bit bonkers 🤪

You do need it super tight and you can pay for professionals (could be around £1.5k each) to get it super tight regards salt / ot etc. However your child might not receive it depending on the LA.

So determine if your child WANTS it …. As the LA can source a provider that is 💩 so it’s not even worth it. As you are not allowed to stipulate the provider (so they generally give rubbish ones / cheaper)

That’s the other side of the coin …..

Might be worth you paying externally than getting 💩 from the LA

OT it’s all about whether SI or not

If provision detailed, specified and quantified in F isn’t provided, it can be enforced. Parents don’t have to accept LA breaching section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014.

If the LA’s provider doesn’t meet needs, you can also challenge that. You don’t have to accept one that can’t meet needs/who is inadequate.

Thank you both. I’ve been doing my research and have spoken to our local IAS who said that it’s perfectly acceptable to have ‘waiting list’ as a provision. I’m more inclined to follow @perpetualplatespinning advice!

Having looked at the whole situation, the cost of reports, the time to appeal and the added stress of it all, I’ve decided I’d be better off finding DS a therapist and an OT myself. I can get him some decent support from the costs otherwise needed to get tribunal worthy reports.

It’s not ideal, but I think the system is so broken (a year to get to hearing is absurd, all LA doing), that it would be more beneficial for DS to just source it ourselves.

IAS is wrong. If provision is detailed, specified and quantified in F of an EHCP, as it should be if the provision is reasonably required, then it must be provided. Section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014 places an absolute duty on the LA to ensure this provision is provided. As has been consistently shown by case law, lack of funding, resources or staff are not lawful excuses for breach of this duty.

You could do both. You could seek provision yourself and appeal when you next have the right of appeal. If you don’t have money for a tribunal standard report and you aren’t eligible for legal aid, contact Parents in Need.

@perpetualplatespinning Thank you again, you’re a fountain of knowledge!