Horrific (table) manners - unfathomable shame/sense of failure

[TakeABreath2023]

Hi,
I have 3 DCs. Eldest S turned 10 yesterday. He is autistic. I have another S who is nearly 8 who is also on the spectrum. Youngest D aged 6 not on spectrum.

My children behave in an absolutely horrific manner. Eldest was an exceptionally challenging younger child on account of ASD, never slept, impossible to wean (exclusively BF at nine months) and I think we only got him to try first solids of some kind of porridge/Weetabix at a year. Getting him to eat anything was soul destroying battle and was only possible via screen until he was 4. I had my mother (of four children all with excellent behaviour and well brought up) helping, and also paid nannies to try to help. It was a hugely depressing and stressful time for me as I had PND severely and then ended up in a coma on ITU which brought to light an undiagnosed autoimmune condition. I went back to work as felt such a failure but made sure we had good childcare at home. Eventually we got him off the screen, but he has eaten the same meals (Readybrek, banana, toast/bread and butter at breakfast, cheese sandwich and chopped apple at lunch and pasta and tomato/Bolognese sauce with cheese supper) every single day since he was about 3. He will eat yoghurt, ice cream and cake too. Although not formally diagnosed, he clearly shows signs of ARFID. It is immensely stressful.

My younger two eat better, and my middle one knows how to use a knife and fork, as does my youngest, but meal times are awful. They often use their fingers, eat with mouth open, speak with mouth full, get up without asking, stupid giggling, not able to sit properly, elbows - you name it, they are horrific. Your worst nightmare. I feel like I have totally failed despite trying and trying to get them to eat properly sounding like a broken record trying to get them to learn basic table manners. Over and over and over again. Boys are missing the empathy chip thanks to the ASD so don’t realise how revolting they are, but both are already bullied (not because of how they eat) and this is just another reason for them to be bullied. I actively avoid them having any play dates as they are so disgusting - was thinking we would do it once we had manners sorted a bit more. I have an awful relationship with my in-laws who make me feel like such a failure as their other (neurotypical) grandchildren can eat properly (and also are amazing sport and get scholarships and are headgirls and get all the leading parts on the plays and and and and….). What the hell do I do. I’ve shed so many tears and can’t believe I have managed to produce such awfully behaved children. Would be so grateful for any moral support or words of advice. After another horrific Sunday lunch with my parents. I feel so useless and down and tired.

This is so sad OP, that you are so disgusted by them. My ds (ASD and dyspraxia) had a very limited diet when he was young, it's really, really not unusual as I'm sure you know. He now as a young adult he eats a pretty good range of food except for when it come to fruit. He also doesn't drink alcohol (so that's a major plus IMO).

You need to pick your battles, elbows on the table is not a hill to die on. Who cares? Who made up the idea that it was rude to put your elbows on the table? It's really not a big deal no matter how much your uptight in laws make you feel bad about it. The giggling is great - it means they're happy and enjoying meal times, it's fine, let them enjoy their meal.

I'd be considering that the middle one struggling with knife and fork (and probably with sitting properly) may well be dyspraxic. Let him sit how he is comfortable but encourage him to put his legs down. Keep encouraging using a fork to eat and a knife to cut up - don't expect him to manage both at the same time, I still am like this as a (probably) dyspraxic adult. If he can manage better if you cut his food up then go with that for now. Lower your expectations a little.

Just remind them to close their mouths when they eat - it's really not unusual behaviour! And remind them to stay in their seats.

This isn't horrific behaviour OP, it's kids with SEN who need a lot of gentle reminding. They're not revolting or horrific and I'd be surprised if their class mates gave a second though to the way they eat, You have all three of them though to deal with eating all at the same time which is why it probably feels a little overwhelming at times.

They are already being bullied OP, they need you in their corner. They need your unconditional love and acceptance. They need you to stop seeing yourself as a failure and to stop having contact with people who make you feel bad about your own children.

Stop crying and stop thinking of them as horrifically behaved. They've got lots of challenges and they're not perfect but they're yours and anyone who doesn't like it can fuck off. You're doing your best and they're happy and that's enough. The world is harsh enough for them OP. Find the good and have their back, they need you to.

Definitely pick your battles.

Have you tried specialist cutlery? Have you tried giving DC a spoon?

What are they like sitting at a table at other times e.g. at school, at home drawing or painting? Can you practice cutting up play-doh?

What are their fine and gross motor skills like more generally?

What support are they receiving? Do they have EHCPs? Have they had OT assessments? Has DC1 been referred for assessment support with the ARFID?

My advice would be to create a small steps plan, teach one small step at a time and practice lots and layer on specific praise. Add in healthy competition and make it easy to achieve. This is because all children can learn (yes, also children with SEN).

By steps, I mean little rules and skills. Use a fork, staying sitting, drinking without slurping, rather then everything all at once. You can make more of routine by teaching how to lay the table. Children love rules and routines, especially children with ASD. It creates order and calm in an otherwise chaotic world. Start by going back to basics, just using a spoon for example.

Children love rules and routines, especially children with ASD.

Some children with ASD. Not all. Some perceive rules and routines as demands and have difficulties associated with that.

Honestly as long as your children are eating it’s not an issue. Try to change your mindset - you are not eating with the king. Happiness is the key. They are sen children they find life hard.

I think it’s probably triggering you more than your children.

As soon as they decide to do it they will. Also some sen kids find coordination hard to chop up their food and it takes a lot of effort more so than using their hands. Or maybe chop their food up and give them a 🥄

Afrid and facebook has an excellent page.

If your so worried about how they eat around people can you not just give them wraps or sandwiches which are acceptable to eat with fingers? Save the full plates of “full dinners” when you’re in your own home without someone watching or you feeling nervous.

Honestly if they are not being nasty to anyone and happy who cares

Also, golden role - never compare yourself to others and equally never compare your children (everyone has some kind of issue going on in their brain / family etc ) …..,

Good luck - love your children and sod everyone else but be kind - do what makes your children happy in the nicest possible way. ❤️

This!