Team around a child meeting

[Sunshineandpool]

My head's all over the place. But I'm just looking for some advice for an upcoming school meeting.

My DD has autism and anxiety. She has just started Y8. Y7 was difficult and I tried to get a meeting in place before school started again or in the first week or so (as advised by the LA - a team around the child meeting) but the school didn't cooperate with this. So my DD started back on Thursday just gone and it was a disaster. She ended up getting so stressed she was shaking and had a nose bleed. The next morning she had a meltdown and was pulling her hair out.

I brought her into school (scared of attendance people getting on my back again.) and said she was in mental health crisis and needed a plan for her. Was just told she can speak to her Learning Mentor then needs to go to lessons. I explained that just wasn't going to work. The headteacher told me the school can't meet her needs but also wouldn't authorise me to take her home. I spoke to the SEN department at the LA who told me to take her home and keep her at home until a meeting could be arranged. And not to worry if it was authorised or not as no action would be taken.

The LA say the SENCo has told them they can meet my daughter's needs. However there has not been an assess/plan/do/review plan in place. This is what the LA want to put into place. The head teacher is claiming there is a plan like this in place but can't give me a copy of the plan or minutes of meetings. When I asked why if this plan existed it was not sent to the LA when they asked for information when I requested an EHCNA I was told the LA had never asked for any information!! So I have now done a Subject Access Request to try and find out once and for all!

Anyway, I'm just looking for any advice on what I could request to be put into place? She doesn't feel safe at school and is really scared. I don't think she can manage a full day and I feel she just needs to get used to being at school and settled before any demands are placed on her with lessons. They have changed her class so she is not with the friend she made last year which hasn't helped!

A friend mentioned finding a nurture group for her. Does anyone know anything about these and how it works?

Sorry for the ramble! Any advice much appreciated!

Bump

Not all secondary schools have nurture groups, but if DD’s does then that could help.

You must follow up your phone call with the LA with an email so you have a paper trail as evidence. Similarly, you need to do the same following speaking with the headteacher.

Are you appealing the refusal to assess?

If DD can’t attend school, request alternative provision under section 19 of the Education Act 1996. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

Have you submitted subject access requests to the school and LA? Or just one of them?

You can use the meeting to discuss reasonable adjustments needed. The support DD needs is beyond what the school can provide at a SEN support level, but they can make adjustments such as uniform adjustments, arriving early or late, a quiet place to go to. Without an EHCP, it may not always be possible to have the same person meet DD in the morning, though. Also discuss the absences must be authorised (it is important the register is accurate. Not just for DD, but the fact it is a legal record.) You can also use it to point out the absurdity of the refusal to assess. And the differing messages about whether the school say they can meet DD's needs or not.

The SEN board is quieter so it can take longer for replies, but the replies you do get are often more targeted and less judgemental than on some of the main boards.

Thank you for replying!

There isn't a nurture group at DD's school. But I did find one at a Pupil referral unit. It looks like they stay on role at their original school and come back to it after spending some time in the nurture group.

I have followed up my conversation with the headteacher who then replied saying she hadn't said things she clearly had!

Yes, I am appealing the refusal. Thank you I will ask for alternate provision.

I have just submitted a SAR to school. Should they acknowledge receipt of it do you know?

DD does have her Learning mentor meet her most mornings and she really likes her. But her learning mentor may tell DD she doesn't need to go to a certain class and then the attendance officer will step in and demand that she goes leaning her in tears. These things have traumatised her. So I feel we're not just starting at the beginning like in Y7, we've gone backwards.

One bone of contention was I asked that if DD is too mentally distressed to attend class that they phone me to pick her up like any unwell DC instead of suspending her as they've been doing. The headteacher swore this wasn't possible, because she 'can't diagnose' a child and would have to have LA permission to do so. Then later that day I get a call to pick DD up because 'she's had a nose bleed and is very upset' - the attendance officer again trying to force her into lessons. I would like clarity on that. DD needs to feel that if she is too unwell to be at school they will ring me in order to feel safe at school.

Not all PRUs are the same. Before you request DD attends there, which may not be agreed depending on the local criteria, you need to investigate it. Not all, but PRUs have DC with challenging behaviour. It doesn’t sound like that would be suitable for DD and may cause further trauma.

I would reply to the HT asking why she is now claiming not to have said things she did on X day. If you don’t get far ask for a meeting because your recollection of events differ. Then record the meeting. You don’t need permission if it is for personal use. Then transcribe the meeting and send as minutes.

Submit a SAR to the LA too. The school should acknowledge the request but many don’t.

The school should not be suspending DD because she is too unwell to be at school. That is unlawful and you must challenge it. The school doesn’t need to diagnose DD and do not need the LA’s permission. The school doesn’t diagnose physically unwell DC.

If your DC is so stressed that she is shaking, bleeding and hair pulling then the school has absolutely not met her needs and she should not go anywhere near school until she feels safe and ready.

As far as I know there is no way there can be any sort of attendance or classroom adaptation plan, EHP or otherwise, about your child in place that you don't know about, haven't been a part of or can't see a copy of.

The confusing and contradictory communication is a big red flag. I would give a little leeway because it's the first week of a new term which I think is always hugely busy for the SEN team. But only a little leeway.

At this point it seems like she should not be in school, and should be allowed time off due to a mental health crisis. At some point you might ask the GP to give you a letter explaining she is having stress/panic attacks to support her being medically absent for a bit. If action is being taken (either a plan or a medical absence) then the attendance people should accept that or otherwise can f* off.

It sounds like you might need a bit more help and guidance than the school or SENCO can give...? We were offered a family support worker through the local council. It took some time to be assigned one, but if it's an ongoing issue then it's worth getting on a list asap. Ours was amazing.

And just rereading your original question, you could ask in your meeting about referral to the council or LA to relevant services that could help you support your family and daughter at home and at school. We hadn't really realised but we were 'a family in crisis' and the Family Support Worker helped us out with so much in and out of school. Full disclosure, we did end up taking DD out of school (year 4).

Some schools do put IEPs (or whatever they call their APDR graduated approach plan) in place without informing parents. They shouldn’t, but it happens more often than parents realise.

I'm not going to be requesting she go there at this stage, but school are looking to get rid of her tbh and I saw 'nurture group' mentioned on something the school wrote and I asked my teacher friend who said it could help DD but unlike Primary we had no idea what Secondary had one - as it turns out only the boys grammar does! And then at this PRU. My initial thoughts was as you say that a PRU would not be suitable for DD. I'm just finding out what I can to be prepared if they bring it up at the meeting.

I am definitely going to record the next meeting we have. Because there is far too much of denying things were said when they indeed were. I think I'll have to do a lot of clarifying at the meeting as to what is actually meant though as the HT speaks like a politician!

Yes, I know it is illegal and I have said exactly that. But I feel there is no way to actually challenge the school. They will just deny any wrong doing.

Yes, I agree with what you say. And from now on she will be at home unless something suitable is in place. I feel better knowing the SEN department are on my side. The attendance meeting was awful - the way I was spoken to. And the only conclusion was they took away DD's reasonable adjustment to come in later to try and suit the school better! It made things worse for DD.

I'll see how DD is after the meeting and if she needs more time off then I'll take her to the GP.

If a family support worker is Early Help then unfortunately I've been stung by them before so wouldn't have anything to do with them. I'm glad yours was good, though.

Personally, unless it is a medical PRU I would look at other types of section 19 provision such as home tutoring, online tutoring, care farm, forest school, an outward bounds AP, hospital school, small group tuition in a centre the LA uses… It depends on DD’s needs and what is available locally.

The school can claim to deny unlawful exclusions all they want but the paperwork (if it is a formal exclusion) and your paper trail (if it is an informal exclusion) speak for themselves. You don’t have to let the HT’s actions go unchallenged. You email the HT reminding them of the law and that they are leaving themselves open to legal challenge should they continue to act unlawfully. If that doesn’t work then you can look at a pre-action letter. SOSSEN can help free of charge with a pre-action for unlawful exclusions. You could also look at a disability discrimination claim.

I feel better knowing the SEN department are on my side.

If you mean the LA’s SEN department you must be careful trusting them. They can appear supportive but actually give inaccurate information, pass the buck and not do what they are supposed to do.

I don't understand why they wouldn't give this information to the LA when they asked, though as support for DD getting an EHCNA. There is something so wrong going on but it is really hard to get to the bottom of it.

It isn’t uncommon for schools not to provide any/much information in response to the LA request. However, it also isn’t uncommon for the LA to lie by saying they have contacted the school when they haven’t or by saying the school hasn’t sent something when they have.

Cross checking SARs from the LA and the school (and any other professional involved) helps get to the bottom of things somewhat. Although, it isn’t unknown for SARs not to be the whole story.

How do you find out about this section 19 provision?

I might have to start looking at the legal route but it's the last thing I need to be honest.

And yes, you are quite right that the SEN department is still the LA so I have to be careful.

The information is all on a Hub that we can all see so I don't think the school can claim they have sent information that is not on there. But who knows what they'll say next?! But the most recent thing is the HT has denied the school was asked for any information.

So I should do a SAR for other people too? The Educational psychologist? The school nurse? (Or does that service just come under the LA?)

At least if there is no APDR plan there I know it doesn't exist. Or if it is there I can use it as evidence for getting an EHCP.

Unfortunately, LAs and schools often only take notice when parents enforce DC’s rights. You may well have to do it for section 19 provision, anyway.

You can read about section 19 provision in general on IPSEA’s website. For what is available locally, for more ‘traditional’ section 19 provision, if you google ‘medical needs tuition’ and your LA you should be able to find what service they offer. For less traditional section 19 provision, such as care farms, forest schools, art APs, gaming APs, outward bounds AP, etc. you will need to do more digging. Some may be on your LA’s local offer. Some LA’s have an AP catalogue where some may be. Some you will only find out about via word of mouth by people in the know, I’m afraid.

If the EP is an LA EP, you don’t need to submit a SAR to them. The school nursing service is an NHS service and will need a separate SAR. If you/DD have had contact with them about DD’s SEN/inability to attend school full-time, you should submit a SAR to them.

Thank you so much for all the information.

The EP is employed by the school.

Employed by the school or an independent EP the school uses?

Maybe an independent the school uses? I'm not 100% sure.

Thinking about it yes, an independent EP. They don't just work for DD's school.

In which case, submit a SAR to them too.