The constant arguing and bargaining

[Cattenberg]

DD is 6 and is being referred for a SEN assessment via her school. Realistically, the assessment itself will be in 2-3 years’ time.

After attending a webinar about ADHD, I’m almost convinced that will be her diagnosis, but ASD is also a possibility. From memory, the expert who gave the webinar said that children with ADHD can be very single-minded and fixated on what they want. So, they don’t tend to accept a “no”, they argue and try to bargain over and over and over again, long after most NT children would have moved on.

DD is like this and it’s truly exhausting. Whether she’s trying to persuade me to buy her more plastic tat treats than her agreed weekly amount, get out of doing her reading homework or wangling herself more screen time or more playtime before bed, she just doesn’t stop. For example, if I agree she can spend another five minutes at the park before we have to leave, she’ll often waste that five minutes demanding that she has ten minutes.

Any advice on how to handle it? Should I use the “stuck record” technique, even if the arguing (and tantrums) persist for days? Or find a compromise that makes her feel she has “won” something, (but she usually continues to fight for more)? Or try to distract her (not easy, she has a one-track mind)? I’m struggling.

I am dealing with this with a 13 year old. ASD and recent ADHD diagnosis. It’s got significantly worse over the past year. We have started meds. Not sure it will make any difference to this behaviour. Low demands, picking your battles seems to be the only answer. It’s absolutely awful to deal with. Every single thing is a negotiation.

Sorry to read that it’s been getting worse, @Itsverycold86 . I’m sure that I’m seen as a permissive parent, but I have to pick my battles too. I think in DD’s case it’s partly about control. She’s very bossy and falls out with her friends because her approach to play is so inflexible.

I find controlling behaviour increases when DD is more stressed or anxious. Do you find the same?

I hadn’t noticed, but I’ll have to give it some thought. DD often keeps quiet about any anxieties but usually opens up if I ask the right questions.

This is very difficult. I have similar with my ASD 4 year old - we call it "DS's art of the deal"... The tips below might be things you've already tried:

• for time limits, timers, especially visual timers can work. That way it's the timer setting the limit and not you.
• visual plans of how a trip will go, including if she'll get a plastic toy. You can get stick on images on a strip. It feels a bit weird to do this with verbal kids, but it can really help with setting expectations. Sometimes it's the anxiety over whether something will happen Eg will I get a toy this time, rather than not getting the toy, which is the thing they can't deal with
• reminding her that when someone says no, she needs to drop the subject. Not, "I already said no" but literally "when someone says no to a request, you can't ask again". Social stories around dealing with a no
• validating the feeling every while you say no. "It's disappointing to hear no." Then offer something she can do to improve her mood. This is actually good emotional regulation practice.
• I agree with the PP that my son will often pick an argument when he's anxious or upset about something he can't articulate - like he's looking for something he feels he can be upset about. "I wonder if you're feeling anxious (about x)" is a useful phrase because it's not a demand.

Before I knew DD was ASC, we already coined the family term "PLR parenting", meaning "path of least resistance parenting." So like: choosing battles, offering a consolation when I've said no to something, or distracting with screens. I felt like such a lax parent, and actually we got to a point where DD had way more autonomy than any other kid her age, but she would respect it and stop making demands and being so defiant because she had the right amount of control.

I agree with PP that predictability and routine are extremely helpful. DD knows how each day goes, and we discuss the night before if the schedule needs to change. She gets a ten and five minute warning before any transition. As PP says, language is really important, to reduce the demand and involve them where you can in the decision.

I have found my tribe. Yes to all of the above with bells on! DS is 10 and diagnosed with ASD this year after a battle royal with the clinical psychologists and school who said he didn't show enough traits in their settings (he masks like a pro).

I second low demand parenting, it goes against everyone around us who have strict routines for meals, bedtimes, homework etc whilst we have to roll with whatever he is comfortable when and where and how much. It's exhausting.

@BusMumsHoliday I love these tips. Thank you!

I was already doing some of these things, but there are several great tips I hadn’t tried, so thank you! I particularly like the idea of using a timer. Also DD’s teacher did give us a few visual prompts on cards - I must try using them more.

It’s a relief to hear from other parents who know what it’s like. When we’re out and about, I do notice disapproving looks from people when DD is bouncing around or talking incessantly. What they might not realise is that DD genuinely finds it very difficult to sit still and be quiet and that sometimes the most I can achieve is to stop her from shouting or prevent an all-out tantrum.

Same. DS has food anxiety so his diet is limited and he has a select number of places where we can eat out because we know the menu can be adapted to his tastes. We have to let him take whatever he wants to a restaurant or cafe, if we refuse he will stand his ground and no-one goes! He has to be entertained whilst eating otherwise he thinks too much about it and barely eats so we always have a card game with us. But more often than not it's his iPad so he can watch something whilst eating. I have heard tuts and feel judged by others and I long to tell them I am not a lazy parent and that the screen allows us to eat out as a family. If he didn't have it he would be uncomfortable eating out and we would have to leave as he would be uneasy surrounded by people. Like I said he masks too well so it's not obvious at all that he has additional needs.

loving all the tips above, we already use some but learning about others is great. Use of language is so important! I sometimes muddle my words if I'm in a rush and DS immediately picks up on it and tries to negotiate.

We use a magnetic white board weekly planner on the fridge and write date and time of school, clubs, outings, play date invite etc. all discussed and agreed in advance so he feels he has set his own diary. I also have a blank whiteboard in the living room with a 'to do' list so any homework (that's a whole different thread!) and chores that translate into pocket money. DS chooses to do them or not but he knows he gets £1 for every one that he ticks.

Oh man, the judgement! DD isn't adhd but she is ASC, so iPads, white food and skipping any personal hygiene is a big part of our parenting. Generally it's fine, and we don't get much public judgement (mostly cos she hates crowds or busy places so we don't go) but my in-laws really struggle with the no boundaries or expectations (a military family).

I just have to say, this is what works for us and yes she's on the iPad eating Nutella in the middle of the morning, but ask her to show you what she's built in Minecraft or drawn on Procreate, or ask her about the Roman Empire or her favourite Tudor royal.

ADHD and ASC kids can be amazing at stuff (don't worry, I'm not using the 'it's your superpower' crap ), but its a long journey of trial and error to find the right way to parent them.