LA to pay for MS private place?

[RabbitsEars]

I’d love to hear from anyone who has got an LA to fund a MS private school place for their child, which they were already paying for?

My DD is in y7. She has missed most of this year so far in her MS state secondary school with EBSA. School tell me she will struggle in any mainstream. They are suggesting a very unsuitable alternative provision or doing nothing and just waiting for her to come back to the class.

DD has ASD, ADHD, SPD. Cant be in busy, loud spaces. It’s not going to change. She struggles to keep up in class because of processing needs, scores in low average range on everything though she’s bright. Demand avoidant on homework. Masks and fawns with teachers when in school. No disruptive dysregulation in school apart from tears but she gets very dysregulated before and after school and hits me.

I’ve found a private MS school which has offered to take her. The class sizes are half what she has been in. I feel with closer adult contact she could access MS curriculum.

I can afford to pay fees for up to two years. But then savings are gone. If I start paying now, can I get LA to take over fees?

She may not be able to cope in this smaller class either. If so, I will look for a more suitable AP. But, if she thrives in the private school, I will ask the LA to take over the fees in an EHCP. But can they refuse and assume I can carry on paying for the full 5 years because I have started to pay? How soon can I ask them to pay, even in a setting it’s uncertain if she can stay?

Or will they refuse to pay and want me to send her to a MS secondary school with a higher class size because she will have shown she can cope in MS- if she manages to stay in the smaller class size school..? I’m desperate and don’t want to wait for EHCP to get her in to a school. I can’t work while she’s out of school, but I need to do that.

We don’t have an EHCP yet though starting process via current school. Primary said she was anxious but fine in school apart from her poor attendance and lateness, so EHCP was never mentioned before. The diagnoses are all private and recent.

I think it is risky. We moved our daughter to a private mainstream school for the small class size for secondary. It is exactly the right school for her. We then applied for an EHCP and we got a very good plan and funding for extra support, but not for the school place. We didn't ask for the fees to be paid as we really wanted her to stay (and could afford the fees) and expected otherwise they would name a local state school. I know it can be difficult to even get an EHCP for a child already in private school. Below is what they wrote in her EHCP regarding fees. You may have more luck if you ask for a contribution equal to the cost of the state school place and at least with an EHCP you will be excluded from the VAT charge if that comes in. I would suggest speaking to the department that organise EHCPs for your area first. They were helpful in saying what they had funded for other children.

It is the Local Authority’s view that NAME needs could be
met in a maintained mainstream school. However, her
parents have chosen to place her in an independent
mainstream school. Therefore, the Local Authority will not be
responsible for the payment of any fees associated with the
independent placement.

Independent schools can be named in an EHCP and therefore fully funded.

However, you would need to prove the LA’s proposed school(s) couldn’t meet needs &/or it wasn’t unreasonable public expenditure. Some LAs will sometimes come to an agreement whereby parents pay the fees and the LA pay for the SEN support but there’s no guarantee and they don’t have to.

Many parents have to appeal. With appeals taking as long as they are, if an EHCNA hasn’t even been requested yet there is no guarantee you would have an EHCP naming the school by the end of the 2 years. If you can only afford 2 years fees it is risky. Many independent schools charge extra for SEN support so you need to ask about that, too.

My DD is in y7. She has missed most of this year so far in her MS state secondary school with EBSA. School tell me she will struggle in any mainstream. They are suggesting a very unsuitable alternative provision or doing nothing and just waiting for her to come back to the class.

There are other options. If DD can’t attend school the La has a duty to ensure she still receives a suitable full-time education. Alternative provision should have been in place before now. Use ISPEA’s model letter to request provision from the LA.

Thank you both. I think I need to contact IPSEA and the LA. TBH i have been scared to call the LA I don’t want them to open a file on me as wanting fees paid through my own choice.

But what do they expect parents to do? I have to work, and I need her to be in a school that seems at least maybe likely to work for her. There aren’t lots of those around but I have found one and it’s MS so presumably unfortunately it’s cheaper than SS but it is fee paying.

If her current MS school say she will struggle in MS the LA shouldnt offer her another MS to try, surely. The noise and confusion of a bigger school isn’t going to go away however much support she gets. What more evidence do the LA need? Maybe I should spend some of the school fee money on private assessments? It’s so frustrating and slow and expensive. And I worry, the longer she is out of school the less likely it would be that any MS school will take her.

If you haven’t even requested an EHCNA yet, focus on that. And separately if DD can’t attend school full time separately to the EHCP process getting alternative provision put in place. You are getting a bit ahead of yourself focusing on the placement named in an EHCP when there could well be 2 appeals needed before you even get to consider a placement in an EHCP.

it’s MS so presumably unfortunately it’s cheaper than SS but it is fee paying.

Not necessarily. Independent MS with SEN support is sometimes more expensive than some SS.

Placements named in EHCPs are the conclusion of the needs and provision included in EHCPs, which in turn are taken from evidence such as reports from ed psych, OT, SALT. Just because the current school has said no MS suitable doesn’t mean the LA will agree with them.

Thank you all and thanks for the detailed replies this is really helpful even if it’s confirming my fears. IPSEA has no appointments available to book. I will try the local authority on Monday.

You are getting a bit ahead of yourself focusing on the placement named in an EHCP when there could well be 2 appeals needed before you even get to consider a placement in an EHCP.

Thanks Headfirstintothewild this is what I am trying to avoid by paying for a school starting soon- I want to get DD into a school quickly to avoid +/-two years of uncertainty for DD, at either the unsuitable AP that’s local, or a stressful commute to an AP somewhere that might work but isn’t local, or tutors at home which make it very hard if not impossible for me to work, while I try to get her funded at this private school (which may not work anyway). I don’t know what the other combinations might be so maybe I am looking at it too negatively.

You have to keep trying with IPSEA. They do call in sessions too. Don’t take the LA’s word for anything. They will tell you what they want you to know and their version of the law.

Section 19 provision has to be whatever is suitable and cannot rely on parents to deliver, organise or facilitate it. There are options beyond home tutors, an unsuitable AP or an AP with an unreasonable travel time (the max travel time considered reasonable is normally 1hr15 for secondary pupils).

There will be more than 1 local AP. Don’t rely on the LA telling you about them all, they won’t. Some areas have an AP catalogue, but this won’t cover all APs, only the LA’s preferred ones. Not all will be readily known about unless you speak to someone with experience of APs locally. Tuition can also take place away from home e.g. at a library, church hall, community centre, council building, a unit the LA use. Hospital school may also be possible.

Headfirstintothewild thank you that’s an incredible relief! There could be other options allowing me to work.

Sorry to jump on your thread, but I'm in exactly the same position with my DD, although she was struggling in primary too so does have an SEN support plan in place. But I'm just very interested in these regular assertions on Mumsnet that "the LA has a statutory duty to provide alternative provision", as though the fact that it is a statutory duty means it will actually happen.

The LA also has a statutory duty to complete EHCNAs within a certain timeframe, but they don't.

@Headfirstintothewild do you actually know of any children who have received "suitable full time education" through alternative provision when the couldn't attend school through EBSA? From what I see from our local SEND groups, you'll be lucky to get an hour a week somewhere.

My DS was out of school for a year, everyone knew about the "statutory duty" but the reality was that the waiting lists were too long for everything, and he never got anything. A year is a long time to miss out on education while you wait for a place with a tutor/stroking a pony/whatever is suitable. There are so many kids in this situation and not enough AP settings to cope. And the chances of ultimately finding a special school that is suitable for what OP's DD sounds like is slim too. Special Schools for quiet ASD girls of broadly average ability without disruptive behaviour at school are very rare.

@unstablefeeling yes, many, including 2 of my DC. Not just locally to me, I have supported parents across the country. Unfortunately, like everything, LAs will often only do so when forced, via JR if necessary. Parents can force the LA to comply with s19 of the Education Act 1996. They don’t have to accept LAs acting unlawfully. An hour a week is not full-time. The LGO is clear on this. Waiting lists are not a lawful excuse for failing to comply.

Longer term, with an EHCP, if it is inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school there is EOTAS via their EHCP. The number of DC with EOTAS packages is rapidly growing. But, again, many have to force the LA’s hand via appealing to SENDIST.

If LAs fail to comply with EHCP statutory deadlines parents can force the LA to act. Again, if necessary, they can look at JR proceedings.

@Headfirstintothewild but how long does it take to get it by going through JR? ( I don't actually know what this is). It took 15 months for my DS from when he stopped being able to go into MS school until he started at his special school. And this was without us having to go to mediation or appeal or anything else because the EHCP and specialist placement were both granted without us needing to appeal. And we were the lucky ones, from what I hear from other parents near us. If you have to go to JR (again, I'm not sure what this is but I assume it's a legal process that may take a while) surely that still means months and months of missed education?

surely that still means months and months of missed education?

@unstablefeeling no, it doesn’t have to. JR is judicial review.

Sometimes the threat of JR to the Director of Children’s Services works. In which case, it doesn’t take long at all.

If that doesn’t work, sometimes a pre-action letter will. This can take a few weeks, it depends how quickly you can find someone to write a pre-action letter for you. The demand for pre-action letters has increased over the last few years, but we are not talking months and months on end. Most cases never get beyond a pre-action letter.

If the pre-action letter doesn’t work and you have to look at beginning judicial review proceedings themselves, this takes longer. If it gets to this stage, most of the time, LAs concede when they are served notice. If they don’t, you can request interim provision is ordered. Few cases get to an actual hearing (which may take a fair amount of time).

So, yes, it takes time, but not 15 months.

Here is SOSSEN’s page on JR. They explain more about the timescales under “Isn’t JR really slow?”

If you didn’t have to appeal but the EHCP process took 15 months, the LA breached the statutory timescales and you could have enforced them.