Cubs/Scouts/Brownies etc.

[clareykb]

DD is 10 and has been at the same scouting unit since she was 6. Beavers then Cubs. She has a diagnosis of autism and this presents as needing extra explanation to keep on task and sometimes being over whelmed and having to sit out or do something else if it is really noisey (eg if they are playing dodgeball she would keep score rather than playing) There has been the odd moment when she has struggled don't get me wrong (she has had maybe 1 melt down which they managed) but I have never been called to pick her up early or anything and she has managed activity days etc- She has just got an EHCP and has some 1:1 support in maths but not in anything else, she manages mainstream dancing, drama and holiday clubs fine. This is more for context to say that really although she does have SEND she is not I would say particulaly out of the ordinary range for a group of 20 kids of a similar age.

They have now said she is unable to move up to scouts unless we provide a 1:1 as they feel the current leadership team is not experienced enough with Send to manage her.

Whilst I don't want to be a total pain as I know they are all volunteers - Anyone have any similar experience they want to share- Any reasonable adjustments? I'm thinking some groups probably better than others? Any similar organisations eg Girls Brigade etc more inclusive.

Has just really upset me as she loves going, wants to keep going and they have this great sounding inclusivity statment on the souting U.K website which is not really showing itself in reality!

I know one of us could volunteer and I am considering it but would rather not for 2 reasons. 1 is that I want her to build her independence and that is a key reason for going. 2 is that I already Volunteer elsewhere as well as working full time and I would have to give that up which would leave onther very different group in the lurch. DH works away so commitment would be tricky.

Are there any other scout groups in the area? It sounds like they're worried about the specific experience and skills of the scout leaders, rather than it being a policy thing. Like they wouldn't have managed the meltdown in the way the cub leaders managed it. Or perhaps the scout leaders don't want to deal with SEN. Which is awful, but as they're volunteers, it's a bit hard to force them.

Thanks- yeah I have started having a look to see if there is one that might be a better fit I feel like that about volunteers- Like it would be great if they were more proactive and actively wanted to learn more about SEN ... however they are giving up their free time so I can't compain I just feel sad for DD

Contact the District Commissioner.

Has DD had social care assessments?

DS2&3 have done beavers, cubs, scouts, and now Explorers. DS3 has a PA that goes with him. Before he moved to Explorers there were some concerns and I thought he wasn’t going to be able to go but in the end the Scouting organisation was helpful in ironing out concerns.

So I actually am involved with Social Care assessments in my day job (not where we live in a different authority) and I am pretty sure she wouldn't meet threshold for P.A support at the moment although she might when she is older. I'm glad you DS3 PA works well for him- it is great if you get a good one!

You can either look at other nearby scout groups or contact the district or county team and ask for a conversation with their inclusion team. It may be that the scout group need more support which could be provided by the district team, or it could be that they will know of a better fit locally.

It is difficult as you say, and with the best will in the world, some volunteers have more understanding or confidence in working with children with additional needs. You can also ask to speak to the group scout leader - they may have a better idea of the concerns of the scout leaders.

If you don’t think DD needs a PA/1:1 I would definitely speak to the District Commissioner.

DS3’s PA is brilliant. They go to a football club with him too.

Speak to the District Commissioner, and see if anything can be done to help. For example, if it's a large scout troop, but doesn't have many leaders, they may already be struggling with coping, and therefore would need an extra volunteer to help with your DD. It may be that cubs and beavers had enough leaders to cope. Perhaps there'll be a troop in your area that has better ratios of leaders/scouts, or just has more experience with SEN.

It's sad for your DD, but I can also see if from the scout leaders point of view. Most scout leaders will want to be as inclusive as possible, but it can be a bit overwhelming. There's a often shortage of leaders as it is, and perhaps the best way they can be inclusive is to request extra help (ie, you attending).

I’m a long serving Guiding Leader and I would initially put an adjustment plan in place after discussion with parents and the child. But knowing one of my girls has an ehcp, I would want an additional Leader in the team to safeguard her and us. I’m a TA in my real life so confident to welcome any girls with additional needs. Other Leaders may not feel so confident, the dynamics of the new unit etc.

I'm a Scout leader. Ratios are different for Scouts (12:1, rather than 8:1 for Cubs). Scouts are expected to show quite a bit more independence too. And Scout-age kids are less generous with their time and energy than their Cub-age counterparts. We currently support one Scout with autism, but I'm not completely happy that he's getting as much from Scouts as he could.

We're accommodating him, but we don't have the adult support to be truly inclusive - he struggles to stay engaged and we struggle to keep him engaged. It works because he's a cheerful lad, a few of the Scouts have known him for years, plus he doesn't attend the meetings he doesn't fancy e.g. he doesn't hike. Could you suggest a trial? You or DH attend for three weeks and see what the leaders think? Would that be doable for you? My worry is that it will be the same for your DD as for our Scout - she'll be present, but not always included.

Could you ask them specifically which bits of her needs they think they'll struggle to manage?
Then you can go from there. It might be that they say something like 'we've got two kids already who need 1:1 support, and we only have enough adults to support the existing kids in the unit' at which point you could go through what she has found helpful, and where she doesn't need extra support ("The only things we know of that's she's needed within Cubs is being allowed to sit out of games and be allowed a scorekeeper or referee role, and if she gets overwhelmed being allowed ten minutes out on her own", which may prompt them to go 'ah ok, that sounds manageable').
Or it may be that they say 'we've actually assigned her an adult at cubs every week to speak to if she gets overwhelmed and to keep her on task and most weeks she doesn't need that support, and we just don't have that many adults at Scouts'

From what you've written, it doesn't seem like she'd need 1:1 support, or an assigned adult, so you could perhaps do this, and say something like, you're willing to attend with her if it's needed, but would they be open to you attending with her the first two weeks, and trialling a third week without you, as you believe she'd cope fine without you, as she has in Cubs.
I'd also say get in touch with the Cub leaders and ask them to send a little paragraph about her and the support she has onto you and the Scout leaders, with particular examples.

Loads of clubs are short on volunteers at the moment, and we were also in a position recently where we would have had to say no to some Rainbows with additional needs moving up to our Brownies, as we just didn't have enough adults to support them, even if they didn't need much support, because we already had girls who needed different levels of support and didn't have the adults to accommodate any more. I'd be more tempted to offer a space if a parent offered to attend a few sessions to showcase that their child didn't need much support.

In Guiding we have something called an Adjustment Plan, which is like, a guided conversation between the leaders, parents and child to discuss accommodations they might need, and how things affect them. If Scouting has one of these, you'll probably want to fill one in too.

Hi thanks for all of your replies they have been really helpful, I think lots of the things people have said are true in that the new leaders are quite young and don't have jobs where they come in to contact with SEN kids often- I think if they had someone who was more experienced it would be ok. I think it is that and the fact that they already are pushed for the ratios- I didn't know scouts was 1:12 but thats probs what they are at. 24 scouts and 2 leaders who are probably early 20s and recently out of uni.

I have said that I would be happy for me or DH to come the first few weeks to be around if needed but they didn't seem to think that would be enough, it was definately that they wanted a consistent person, with a DBS and safeguarding training to come every week- but I might go back and discus what the specific worries are - Like if it is hikes, campfire, using knifes etc they are worried about one of us would be happy to support as and when but it is the weekly support that is an issue ( O.H often works away some weeks I'm already volunteering elsewhere 2 nights a week) I might also suggest a more structured trial.

I have in the meantime found a local girls brigade group where they have a leader who works in a local special school who says she would be welcome there but I'd like her to say in scouting if possible.